Clutch ..time for a change ?

[Midlife Crises]

It’s going to work just fine. Fill it with fluid, pump the hell out of the peddle until it feels good and take it for a ride.

 

[brasil]

@ Midlife Crises

I am sorry that I am asking so much about the "clutch theme "... but I never ever had such a complicated clutch exchange in my whole life.
And because I have to live in Germany...access for spare parts is very difficult, and when I blow up a TOB for example...I have to place a order in the US ( Summit / RA /Tasca... ) the US prices are o.k. for me - but shipping and customs are a big amount of money.

So I have to be very careful, while handling with those "golden parts "

Greetings from Germany to the Last Frontier

Jurgen

 

[Midlife Crises]

@ Midlife Crises

I am sorry that I am asking so much about the "clutch theme "... but I never ever had such a complicated clutch exchange in my whole life.
And because I have to live in Germany...access for spare parts is very difficult, and when I blow up a TOB for example...I have to place a order in the US ( Summit / RA /Tasca... ) the US prices are o.k. for me - but shipping and customs are a big amount of money.

So I have to be very careful, while handling with those "golden parts "

Greetings from Germany to the Last Frontier

Jurgen

I understand your caution. Everybody here wants you to be successful.

 

[brasil]

... finished my work for today. Because of the "overthrow risk " of the PP, because I use the GT 500 master cylinder , I reduced the clutch pedal travel from 2.5 inches to 1.84 inches
Used a rubber piece that normal sits under the hood , to prevent a "hard landig " while slamming the hood..
Took out the little white plastic bumper that sits in the pedal assy..and found out that a 8mm screw works perfect as a self tread tool. So with the 8mm tread , I could use the rubber bumper, right athe same location where the OEM bumper was located.

Had to enlarge the clutch switch , this can be done by pulling out the little grey stick ..

Started the engine..( DS was not installed at this time ) and pushed the clutch pedal..no strange sound... then I went into 1st gear. no grind sound ..same for the reverse gear.

So tomorrow I will call a buddy of mine to have a look at the rear wheels.. while the rear end /axle is on jackstands, and then I know when the clutch is engaging ..

btw....bleeding of the clutch system was a breeze took less than5 minutes, until I had full pressure from the very top ..or perhaps 3-5 mm less..


here are some pics from the "pedal travel reducer"..

 

[brasil]

for the records.. files... THERE IS NO NEED for a Pedal Travel limiter . The clutch pedal needs -even with a gt500 clutch master cylinder the full OEM travel..

With the limiter, the clutch engages so close to the floor... that you can not "fine tune " the engagement properly.

So I removed the limiter..went for a second test ride...much better ! Shifting in all gears is very smooth - close to perfect. Only when I need to stay on the clutch while backing -up for example ..the clutch "chatters a little bit..But I hope that it will getting better after the break in.

 

[whitmanink]

If it’s any help at all. This is the spacer I used when I installed a T56 mag. XL and a McMeod twin disc. Notice the spacer is flanged to center itself on the transmission and the throwout unit centers itself as well. When it’s all bolted up (using longer bolts) you can’t even tell it’s there.

View attachment 117393

View attachment 117394

you got such a legit setup my dude

 

[GlassTop09]

for the records.. files... THERE IS NO NEED for a Pedal Travel limiter . The clutch pedal needs -even with a gt500 clutch master cylinder the full OEM travel..

With the limiter, the clutch engages so close to the floor... that you can not "fine tune " the engagement properly.

So I removed the limiter..went for a second test ride...much better ! Shifting in all gears is very smooth - close to perfect. Only when I need to stay on the clutch while backing -up for example ..the clutch "chatters a little bit..But I hope that it will getting better after the break in.

Hey brasil,

Just to inform you on Exedy non-OEM clutch\PP systems if not already known.........Exedy designs these packages on purpose to provide a low pedal engagement\disengagement (most racers prefer this to a higher engagement like OEMs usually are......) thus why they show to engage\disengage within 3"-4" off the floor. I have a full Exedy Mach 500 Stage 3 Grooved PP clutch setup (CM flywheel, organic sprung clutch disc & 522 lbs\ft clamp load PP) installed that came w\ the paperwork that states this & follows it to the tee.

IMHO I don't understand why Exedy doesn't provide TOB shims for these setups, but I like what you've done w\ yours (turning the .500" self-centering shim down to .355" to hit around the .750"-.875" TOB preload range.....) thus I'll plan to duplicate your work when it comes time to replace my setup (been in service for 9 yrs to date......still working OK but time is counting down..........clutch just barely disengages fully when pedal is put to floor but synchros\slider teeth are also a little tired\worn as well which don't help either......also using a 13-14 GT500 clutch MS w\ FR Boss 302R\FR500S 5\16" SS solid clutch line......) as I had this setup installed at my local Ford dealership (wasn't equipped to do this myself at home at the time.......am now......) & I know for sure that they didn't shim it..........Exedy claims that their setups don't need them..........but from my observations I think they would be better if they were shimmed somewhat & this .750"-.875" TOB preload range should be perfect for Exedy clutch systems IMHO (from your results & others results I've read\seen that used Exedy clutch systems this TOB preload range seems to hold true.......working TOB shim thickness seems to range from .312" to .355" w\ Exedy clutch systems......).

Good job!

 

[brasil]

@ glass top. Thank you for your commendation.

about the engagement.. as you can see I used a home made "Pedal travel limiter "..a simple rubber bumper with a 8mm screw tread. so I can play a little with the engagement point.
But I for myself fell more comfortable if the clutch engages a tick higher than close to the floor.
The whole pedal travel is around 6,5 cm ..so my engagement point is at 2 cm off the floor..

This is very good, if your are in a parking lot... pulling into a parking space.. a.s.o.

and while sitting in the traffic jam... same thing here.. if the clutch engages too fast, could be a brainer..

BTW Interesting is also, that SACHS puts a 0.210" spacer into their clutch kits..and a Info sheet where they inform the buyer, that the spacer /shim has to be used for the intallation

 

[brasil]

here are some fotos from a SACHS Clutch Kit..

 

[Juice]

The TOB shim does NOT affect engagement point. You would have to use a larger bore master, a smaller bore slave to raise the engagement point.

 

[Midlife Crises]

The TOB shim does NOT affect engagement point. You would have to use a larger bore master, a smaller bore slave to raise the engagement point.

This is true. That adjustable bump stop would only limit the pedal travel and likely cause the clutch to drag rather than fully disengage.

 

[brasil]

I need the adjustable bump, because I use the GT 500 Master..bigger bore - more travel at the TOB.
.... too much travel and the TOB is history. My preload is around 0.740... perfect for a OEM plastic master.. but on the edge , when using a GT 500 Master. So with the Bumpstop I have the best out of two worlds... a beefier master( GT 500 ) and no risk to overpress /throw the TOB into the PP.

Tell me - if I am wrong with my thinking

Right now I can push the clutch pedal real smooth... the gears engage super smooth.. and when I let the clutch engage, the engagement is 100% complete at the end of the lower 1/3 of pedal travel.

 

[Midlife Crises]

I need the adjustable bump, because I use the GT 500 Master..bigger bore - more travel at the TOB.
.... too much travel and the TOB is history. My preload is around 0.740... perfect for a OEM plastic master.. but on the edge , when using a GT 500 Master. So with the Bumpstop I have the best out of two worlds... a beefier master( GT 500 ) and no risk to overpress /throw the TOB into the PP.

Tell me - if I am wrong with my thinking

Right now I can push the clutch pedal real smooth... the gears engage super smooth.. and when I let the clutch engage, the engagement is 100% complete at the end of the lower 1/3 of pedal travel.

Your own entry #65 states you removed the adjustable bump stop because it wasn’t needed and you have a better operating clutch without it. You are attempting to fix problems that do not exist. When you had 9 tenths of an inch preload the clutch would have worked just fine for many years. There was no benefit to machining the spacer to get only around 0.740” preload. It is just operating closer to the end of the hydraulic units travel. Still plenty of room to spare and the clutch operation is the same.

 

[Juice]

Your engagement point is standard for these cars, yes, a bit lower than I would like but not enough to even bother with a braided line.
Gt500 master does not have a larger bore size, its the SAME part as standard GT & V6. Until someone shows me otherwise, and I am not talking part nubmers on the box. If it had a larger bore than your engagement point would be higher.
Bump stop, bad idea. If it covers the opening to the fluid reservoir, it will "ride" the clutch, not let fluid replenish, and the system won't bleed since it can't refill.

 

[brasil]

ok guys. I will remove the bump stop.
Sorry for the confusion, I made.

I think / agree that you are right, with your statements.

Thank you for these advises

Greetings Jurgen