Coyote Swapped 08 Wiring Trouble

[JECE_S197]

Hey all! Sorry for the wall of text

First off I'd like to say that this forum has helped me through the tougher spots of a Coyote Swap especially because this is my first time doing anything of this sort. I had initially started working on the swap starting March 2022 and had slowly chipped away at it until I was almost ready to first fire, but then I had a tragic loss in the family that shook me to my core. In all honesty I lost any type of motivation to work on this project and it was just sitting in my garage untouched. Recently I have been able to regain my motivation with help from my family, and am finally ready to dive back into it

As stated in the title I am having trouble with the wiring, more specifically where I should start my troubleshooting. I was able to reach out to Matt Soppa on YT and gain access to his knowledge on the Wiring for an early S197 and I followed it to the T. He was very helpful, and I believe I was able to follow the sheet to the best of my ability. Once I got the wiring to a spot I was comfortable with, I placed the engine and trans back in the car and tied things back together with the best of my ability. With the wiring I had already completed, I was able to power on the electronics and get the vin for the PCM for the tune, so I was already pretty happy about that. Once I received and loaded the tune, and tried to turn the engine over to build oil pressure, nothing happened. When I turn the key to the Start and Run Position, the car acts as if I don't have the clutch depressed at all. I have a few theories as to why that is, but would like an experts opinion as to why this may be the case so I can start chasing the electrical gremlins. So here's what I've been able to deduce:

What I know: The fuses, and relays that correspond with the starter are fine. I heard the fuel pump prime when I turned the key to the On position, and switched the relay with the Starter Relay to make sure that it still worked. It did, which rules out that the Relay was bad.

The battery and Starter were both new and I had no reason to believe that they are gone. I then tried the starts with the jumper pack that I have and ran into the same issues.

I don't get any PATS warnings or Dashboard warnings when the key is in the on position at all, as I did have PATS deleted. I was also able to read the vin without issue.

This may not matter at all, but outside of the engine not turning over, everything else works as it should.

My Theories: When I had a friend come over to try and help me troubleshoot, I used a multi-meter to try to locate where a voltage drop may be. I initially started with the fusebox, but it was getting the full 12v without issue. Then I moved through out my wiring and the Transmission Harness and finally came across the culprit. The Starter feed wire (the smaller wire that gets 12v when the key is in on and Star/Run) did not get the 12v when the key was in the on position or in the Start/Run Position. Even with the clutch pedal pressed all the way in that wire did not receive voltage at all.

Theory 1: My wiring for the Starter specific circuit is off/bad/wrong. I followed Matt Soppa's sheet to the T, but with how little I am experienced with wiring, it is entirely possible that I messed up somewhere. I don't thing I got any mixed up at all, but I more so believe that the splices I made for the starter circuit were probably insufficient/bad. I am totally willing to go back and redo them, I just more or less need a place to start and/or target

Theory 2: My Wiring for the Neutral Safety Switch circuit is off/Bad/Wrong. I think this one is less likely, because when I had my multimeter to the wire that is supposed to have a voltage change when the Clutch is pressed all the way in did indeed show a voltage drop on the multi-meter. I may be wrong on that though, so I'm not ruling it out either.

For reference, My car is a Base 08 GT 5-Speed Manual that now has a 14 Coyote with the matching PCM, EPAS Out of a 13 GT Premium, and a TR-6060 out of an 07 GT500.

I hope that I was able to provide enough info so that I properly conveyed the issues I'm facing! I am completely open to any and all help on this subject. Thanks!

 

[mattjames]

Since you have an 08 the clutch safety switch is on the ground side. You said it had voltage drop, not sure what you saw exactly.

Did you tie pins 37 and 16 for the 12v in start?

You mentioned trying to jump it with a jumper pack, was that a standard jump to the battery or?

I'd see if you can jump the starter solenoid wire to see if it'll start up!

 

[JECE_S197]

I'll check the wiring back again to see what exactly I did. When I tried to turn the car on, I had the charged to battery to operating volts, and then tried again with the jump pack still connected to the battery. I'll try both methods and verify when I get the chance to tonight.

 

[Juice]

So what did you do with PATS?
You havr to run a cluster from a 13-14, and program your keys. Unchecking PATS switch in the tune is not enough. PCM needs to have PATS delete done or it wont crank.
One other option is to run the control pack strategy.
Did you scan for codes?

 

[mattjames]

Juice has a good point. Was PATS deleted?

 

[JECE_S197]

Sorry for the delayed response, I was traveling last week for work and just got back tonight. I did tie Pin 37 to Pin 16, and I used one of those push connectors that ties two wires together. Should I redo that? I now have some solder connecters and better splice connectors. Also I sent the PCM to PBH to get PATS deleted prior to starting the wiring. When I loaded the start-up tune in I didn't get any codes, or anything that was suspicious. I can try it again, and post what I see.

 

[JECE_S197]

Had the chance to check for any CEL codes, and got the P1602 code. I looked it up and read that it can be caused by an open or short/bad electrical connection. Should I start by going through the CAN wires to make sure that they are properly connected? It may be a PITA but I'm more than willing to redo all of the connections once again

 

[JECE_S197]

Still working on it

 

[JECE_S197]

So I re-did all of the wiring and tried firing her up, and unfortunately had no luck. I was hoping to get this all smoothed out pretty soon, but that may not be the case. I'm completely stumped as to what it could be, and am open to trying anything at this point. I will try jumping the starter with a screw driver trick at some point this weekend and post what happens. There is most likely a simple fix, but I can't seem to pinpoint it. I am highly motivated to get this sorted out, I gotta have it ready by the end of August for the Woodward Dream Cruise at least

 

[JECE_S197]

May have found what it may be. Found that the ground for the negative cable has seemed to have been jostled loose. I was watching a video about something unrelated, and someone had mentioned that after they did an interior swap, the car wouldn't turn over. It was recommended to check the proper grounds/pinched wires and then I made sure to do a once over on mine. Are the locations for my grounds similar to the swaps that are currently running?

 

[DieHarder]

May have found what it may be. Found that the ground for the negative cable has seemed to have been jostled loose. I was watching a video about something unrelated, and someone had mentioned that after they did an interior swap, the car wouldn't turn over. It was recommended to check the proper grounds/pinched wires and then I made sure to do a once over on mine. Are the locations for my grounds similar to the swaps that are currently running? View attachment 87933 View attachment 87934 View attachment 87935 View attachment 87936

Last ground doesn't look so great. If you have a heavy-duty solder gun you might want to heat that up and redo it. The main ground for the car is on the last pic. The largest ground line/battery ground should connect to that point. If you suspect grounds are an issue I would run an extra line from the engine block to the passenger strut tower. That will ensure a solid ground and continuity is good between the two. When you get it started if you have less that 14v you might also add an extra line from the body of the alternator to the passenger strut tower. Last, if your battery/charging cables are old (+15 years) might be a good time to change them. I did and my alternator output improved nearly 2v. All told the changes mentioned increased my operating voltage from ~12.8v when I started to 14.5v at the end.

 

[JECE_S197]

Sorry for letting this thread hang for a while, I was in the process of moving to a new house so that kind of pushed the swap on the back burner. But I have been able to try a few things:

I was able to test and check all of the fuses and relays on both the underhood fuse box and the passenger side fuse panel many times over. Nothing of note or anything looking fried but I still replaced any fuse/capacitor that could have any thing to do with the starter relay.

I ended up replacing the old battery harness that had the suspect looking ground with a battery harness out of a 14 GT500. I got a mutual friend who was parting out his wrecked GT500 so I was able to snag it for practically free. It works a little better for my application because I have a TR-6060 in my 08 so aside from swapping the speed sensor wires I don't really have to modify the harness.

I was able to attempt a version of jumping the starter. I created a wire to connect the two points in the fuse box that the relay switch would close and supply the signal to the starter, and when I tried the connection it worked. I didn't hold it in long at all because I didn't want to mess anything up so it was only really a touch to see if the starter would crank the motor. It was a little bit of a surprise, and I went back in vehicle to try and crank the engine normally, and once again nothing happened. So at least I know that the car CAN crack but there is something preventing it from happening. I'm at a little bit of a loss because a few months ago I went through the wiring twice over and found everything to be in order. Is there something else that I am missing? I doubt that PBH sent me an ECM that didn't have PATS fully deleted, but at this point I'm willing to try anything

 

[JECE_S197]

This thought just came up, could it be that the tune that I got from PBD be the potential culprit? When I got the start up tune I didn't specify that this was a swapped engine car so could that potentially be an issue? Perhaps the startup tune was written for a non swapped S197 yote car and had PATS already baked in? I'll try to check and see

 

[mattjames]

I doubt the PCM is suspect, is there a wire loop on the big fuse block connector going from E10 to B9? That essentially jumps the starting circuit on manual cars but if yours was an auto it gets completed with the transmission range switch.