DOB Install

[o2sys]

Ok so with the new 170* tstat at I'm seeing great results. Ambient was 76~80 degrees this afternoon and local city driving (30mph stopping at red lights some traffic here and there) my iat stayed at constant 126~130* and my engine coolant was 175~185 constant. Normally my iat would shoot up to 145~150 during a day like this but it was good today. Out of my cooling mods such as bigger h/e with fans, 20 gpm pump, water wetter, the tstat has provided the best results.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Ok so with the new 170* test at I'm seeing great results. Ambient was 76~80 degrees this afternoon and local city driving (30mph stopping at red lights some traffic here and there) my iat stayed at constant 126~130* and my engine coolant was 175~185 constant. Normally my iat would should up to 145~150 during a day like this but it was good today. Out of my cooling mods such as bigger h/e with fans, 20 gpm pump, water wetter, the tstat has provided the best results.

That's a good result. But don't forget that a cooling system is just that, a system. Remove any one part and it will loose effectiveness fast. You have a solid system, but missing one part.

It would work the same if you had a huge HE, huge IC, huge lines, huge fans......and was running a small pump. The system would perform pretty well. But put a big pump in there and all of a sudden you have a fantastic system.

 

[BruceH]

I may have a 178 degree thermostat in right now. Prior to this I had two thermostats, one was stock heat motorcraft and one was a 178? (I'm pretty sure that's what it was) from NAPA.

Last night I took the one sitting in spare parts and put it in a pan of water along with a candy thermometer. It started to open at 175 degrees and was fully open at 200 or so. Those temps are very close to the factory specs.

For a test I knocked the fan speed temps down to see if iats would follow lower ects. The test was on the way to work this morning. Didn't see much difference in iats. I'll drop them some more and see what happens. I'll also order a 170 thermostat so that I'll know for sure what's in the motor.

I have my tune set up to start pulling spark at 139 degrees. I can say that the iats are almost always under that though. So in the end they are higher than I'd like to see but aren't impacting anything but air density. The motor is making plenty of power, even on gasoline.

 

[Department Of Boost]

What heads and cams do you have again? Is that motor a full 326?

 

[BruceH]

Heads are frpp cnc heads, cams are basically 127500 with a 108 icl (6 degrees more than a 127500) and lsa of 113. Another way to put it would be a Livernois blower cam with 6 more degrees of retard than their regular blower cam. IIRC it's stage 2.

The motor is 322 cubic inches. 3.75 x 3.701.

What heads and cams do you have again? Is that motor a full 326?

 

[Department Of Boost]

Heads are frpp cnc heads, cams are basically 127500 with a 108 icl (6 degrees more than a 127500) and lsa of 113. Another way to put it would be a Livernois blower cam with 6 more degrees of retard than their regular blower cam. IIRC it's stage 2.

The motor is 322 cubic inches. 3.75 x 3.701.

What level FRPP heads? Do they have the bigger valves?

I sure like how yours dropped the boost so much.

 

[BruceH]

FRPP lists the standard valve heads as cnc. The large valve heads are "High Flow".

Mine are the cnc with standard valves. Too many people had issues with the Livernois stage 3 heads for me to take a chance on them. For anyone who doesn't know that Livernois does the machining for FRPP 3v heads now you do, lol.

Is 5-6 lbs a big drop from what it makes with a 4.6? It feels plenty strong right now even with 92 octane and a max spark advance of 14 degrees. I'm really not even seeing a need for the smaller pulley. This motor with it's high compression really responds well to the little GT500 blower. I'd say it feels the same as the 9.5 compression stock bore, stock heads and cams motor did with 13psi from a Whipple.

It is a significant increase. I'll stick with my guess of around 525rwhp and I think the torque is right around that level too.

I did order a 170 thermostat just to know for sure what's in the motor. BTW almost every parts store has them for $7 - $9.

What level FRPP heads? Do they have the bigger valves?

I sure like how yours dropped the boost so much.

 

[Department Of Boost]

FRPP lists the standard valve heads as cnc. The large valve heads are "High Flow".

Mine are the cnc with standard valves. Too many people had issues with the Livernois stage 3 heads for me to take a chance on them. For anyone who doesn't know that Livernois does the machining for FRPP 3v heads now you do, lol.

Oh yeah, I know. Back@itagain is a good friend of mine (local). I was around for the whole Livernois head thing. Got to see everything first hand.

I've got pretty much the same heads as you do then. Livernoid Stage I's with bronze valve guides and a 3 angle valve job.

Is 5-6 lbs a big drop from what it makes with a 4.6?

Yeah, pretty big. Stock motored cars with the same pulley make 11-12psi.

I sure would like to see that kind of boost drop when I do my new "drag" motor. That would put me at about 875hp on 93 and 1200-1300 on e85 (at more boost). At some point it will lift a head (it won't run out of blower), the lower I can keep the boost because of a bigger/better flowing motor the better.

I haven't decided what to do about the heads yet. Use the ones I have or go for something "big" and spend the big $$$ which I would like to avoid. I'm not 100% sure on huge heads being that much help with a PD blower. I have a feeling that as long as the valves are open far/long enough that the displacement is what "makes boost". IDK really know. You don't see people throwing heads at 800+hp motors with no other changes and testing them. By then they already have the bigger stuff.

I did order a 170 thermostat just to know for sure what's in the motor. BTW almost every parts store has them for $7 - $9.

I'm curious if you see a difference.

 

[BruceH]

Part Details

Hover over image to zoom
click to enlarge

4.6L/5.4L CNC PORTED 3V RH CYLINDER HEAD - ASSEMBLED
M-6049-N3VPA*
Suggested Retail Price
$1,049.00

Sold in Units of:
Each (1)


tech notes

• New production cylinder head casting
• No exchange required. Minimize your vehicle down time waiting for a shop to port your heads. Get a brand new head for a little more than the price of an exchange!

• CNC ported to increase flow and performance
• 53 cc combustion chamber (Stock head is 51 cc)
• Intake runner volume: 202cc (Stock 174cc)
• Exhaust runner volume: 73cc (Stock 62cc)
• Intake flow rate at .600 lift: 272 CFM
• Exhaust flow rate at .600 lift: 190 CFM
• Assembled with factory guides, production springs, valves, retainers, locks, and seals
• Does not include camshaft, followers, and hydraulic lash adjusters
• Use head changing kit M-6067-3V46.
• Requires 2008-2010 12 MM spark plugs
• Heads will fit early cars originally equipped with "High thread" design spark plugs. Spark plugs M-12405-3V12MM and ignition coils M-12029-3V recommended.

Note: Engines with late style 12MM spark plugs can be identified by coil engineering number 8L3E Engines with early style 16mm "High Thread" design spark plugs can be identified by coil engineering number 3L3E part number.

​

 

[BruceH]

I was able to watch the boost during a wot pull today. It hit a little over 7psi with the 3" pulley. I had only seen 5psi prior but I wasn't watching it for very long at that time. I should get a 3 bar sensor to data log with instead of relying on my mechanical gauge.

Tuning is pretty much done. I need to get it on the dyno to verify. It gets with the program right now. Feels good and sounds great with that pd whine. If I want more power the 2.65" pulley is easy enough to put on. It's just about as easy to switch to E85 and gain power.

I had forgotten that the blower needs to come up in order to change the thermostat. I got the 170 thermostat today but it might wait until the blower comes up for another reason, not sure if I have the ambition to pull the supercharger and alternator right now. It will come at some point.

The second gear pull saw a max of 118 degrees for the iat. If that turns out to be the norm then it's fine. Ambient was in the low 60's at the time.

 

[o2sys]

What size maf are you running?

 

[Paps]

Post some pics/vids!

 

[BruceH]

What size maf are you running?

Stock maf meter in a 2011 GT500 cai. Not sure on the size of it, probably around 4.5" or 113mm. The highest maf voltage I've seen is 4.487 which results in a calculated airflow of around 70# a minute. Max load was 1.61. That's not an exact comparison to other motors but it does give me a decent baseline for this one. The main thing is that there is still room left for more airflow with this cai and maf.

Post some pics/vids!

It's still a mess under the hood. I've bought some large convoluted tubing to tidy things up with. Still have to reroute the alternator wire too. This will be the first weekend I've had off from work in two weeks. The week prior to that I had out of state visitors so most of my time has been taken up. I'll get to it though.

I find myself shopping for TVS blowers even though I'm quite happy with the current power level. Based on previous experience and how it felt I'd guess that switching back to E85 would be worth around 50rwhp with the current level of boost. The point being that with E85 iats don't matter much and picking up that much power with just a fuel swap is much less expensive than a TVS. I could even use the 2.65" pulley for more power if I really wanted it.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I find myself shopping for TVS blowers even though I'm quite happy with the current power level. Based on previous experience and how it felt I'd guess that switching back to E85 would be worth around 50rwhp with the current level of boost. The point being that with E85 iats don't matter much and picking up that much power with just a fuel swap is much less expensive than a TVS. I could even use the 2.65" pulley for more power if I really wanted it.

You think you are making 550 right? So 50 for e85 and about 75 for the 2.65 pulley. That would put you at 675 or so, and you would still only be spinning the blower to the same speed they spin STOCK on GT500's.

Yeah, you absolutely need a TVS!

 

[o2sys]

Get the new MP Gen2 TVS! That thing has a huge inlet!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[BruceH]

You think you are making 550 right? So 50 for e85 and about 75 for the 2.65 pulley. That would put you at 675 or so, and you would still only be spinning the blower to the same speed they spin STOCK on GT500's.

Yeah, you absolutely need a TVS!

Probably 525 or so right now but it felt closer to 600 with E85. I felt that it was making more power than I really wanted with E85, lol. OCD rearing it's ugly head again, lol.

Get the new MP Gen2 TVS! That thing has a huge inlet!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

What's this? More info please!

 

[o2sys]

Sorry I meant VMP..stupid auto correct.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Dubstep Shep]

I'm not a huge fan on the TVS, though it's a HUGE step up from the factory eaton.

Roots will always be inferior to twin screw in my book.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Roots will always be inferior to twin screw in my book.

Depends on what you're using it for.

 

[BruceH]

I'm not a huge fan on the TVS, though it's a HUGE step up from the factory eaton.

Roots will always be inferior to twin screw in my book.

Depends on what you're using it for.

Having owned and driven both like gmitch has I'd have to agree. Yes twin screw is a better setup for a high hp daily driver. However, it's hard to knock a pd kit that's making decent safe hp and only costs about $3500 total. The point is that the roots works and if I run it with E85 iats aren't a concern. I have talked with one dedicated drag racer in Arizona who never runs an intercooler with supercharged motors running on E85.

I think that the tvs would be a step up but I've decided to stick with the M122. I just ordered two 8" fans that will be mounted on the heat exchanger bracket. They will be wired to run from the same power source as the intercooler pump. Each one will also be independently switched so they can be turned off during cooler weather.

I'll report the results once I've run them enough to get solid data. E85 is still limited around here and the one station close to me has jacked the price considerably. I'm not sure why but I imagine it has to do with all the E85 business he does. It's almost always modified cars and he's the only game in town for now.