DOB Install

[o2sys]

Which water pump ate you using? The gt500 pumps only prime well mounted horizontally.

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[BruceH]

Which water pump ate you using? The gt500 pumps only prime well mounted horizontally.

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GT500 pump mounted in the stock location on the intercooler.

It's started. Goes up to 3k or so and dies. It stayed running when throttle was applied enough to keep it in open loop. The open loop a/f was good but closed loop was lean. Very lean. This suggests a vacuum leak but I can't figure out where from.

It's progress. I've never had issues like this before, even when putting a home made motor in. I have faith that it will get worked out. I'm gaining more experience with mod motors, lol.

 

[toorbeenee]

Cant you use spray to see where Vac leak is from ?

 

[o2sys]

If your car is stalling it maybe the wholes next to the fuel rail posts. I had this issue and until I did a smoke test:

Look it the last post http://www.departmentofboost.com/vbull/showthread.php?295-Installs-gone-wrong-DO-NOT-DO-THIS

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[GreenTerror]

When I did mine I missed a port on the backside of the elbow that was causing a vacuum leak for me. Double check you've capped them all.

 

[BruceH]

Found it. Vacuum leak. Plugged it and it runs well enough to drive. I'll do some logging tomorrow and tweak the tune. There is enough grunt there to spin the tires in third at highway speeds. It's not whining too much but I have the large pulley on it.

Next up will be the 2.65" pulley. I'm concerned about the iats too. The pump is finally working but it loses prime. Hopefully that is just from me opening the reservoir and losing the built up pressure.

It's a relief to look for a vacuum leak, find it, repair it, and have the motor run well again.

 

[skwerl]

That vacuum nipple looks like a pretzel.

 

[BruceH]

That vacuum nipple looks like a pretzel.

It still works fine. Had to be adjusted to not hit the firewall.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Bruce, Jim and I had a hell of a time getting my system primed initially, but we didn't put the pump at the stock location. At that location it fills the heat exchanger from the top down, which isn't ideal. Once it was primed though, I've never had a single issue with it losing it's prime, even with the reservoir cap open.

 

[BruceH]

Bruce, Jim and I had a hell of a time getting my system primed initially, but we didn't put the pump at the stock location. At that location it fills the heat exchanger from the top down, which isn't ideal. Once it was primed though, I've never had a single issue with it losing it's prime, even with the reservoir cap open.

I've found that kinking the top line and blowing into the reservoir will prime the pump. It might be a thing of getting all the air bubbles out.

So far it's running hot iats. I'll get a better idea tomorrow when I log and make sure the intercooler pump is working prior to taking off. The Whipple used the same pump and never had an issue. It was also designed with formed hoses that were much shorter than this setup. Once it's going the water flow is significant.

I also need to learn more about the gt500 bypass. I'm not certain I have it hooked up correctly or that it's functioning correctly.

 

[Mystickeith50]

Bruce that's how I primed my pump after having it lose prime. I kinked the top hose after disconnecting it from the bottom of the blower, put a small container under the snout and blew into the reservoir sealing it. Worked great and never lost it again.

 

[stkjock]

have a plunger?

 

[19COBRA93]

I also need to learn more about the gt500 bypass. I'm not certain I have it hooked up correctly or that it's functioning correctly.

Just run vacuum/boost to the top nipple, and leave the bottom nipple open. It should work perfectly that way.

 

[BruceH]

Just run vacuum/boost to the top nipple, and leave the bottom nipple open. It should work perfectly that way.

That's what I ended up doing. Couldn't do a full pull today but I will say that it pulled hard. Hard enough that the fuel pump went to 100%. The pull got up to 6600 before I shut it down. When it was na I had turned the bap down to 0. I'll be needing to turn the knob back up.

I have some cosmetic work left. Need to reroute lines, fab a bracket for the ps pump, and tie some lines up.

I haven't poured over the log yet but the initial glance looks like iats are hovering about 40-50 degrees over ambient during highway cruise conditions. That means I was seeing low 100s today. If it stays linear it would mean 120-140 during the summer. FYI that's what the non intercooled whipple ran. There might be a tvs in my future or I'm going to stay with e85 all the time.

The butt dyno is saying over 600rwhp right now if it's not pulling timing. I'm fairly certain that the 12:1 compression has a lot to do with it.

 

[stkjock]

when was that dyno last calibrated?

 

[Dillon Dollar]

Tvs tvs tvs tvs

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[Mystickeith50]

That's what I ended up doing. Couldn't do a full pull today but I will say that it pulled hard. Hard enough that the fuel pump went to 100%. The pull got up to 6600 before I shut it down. When it was na I had turned the bap down to 0. I'll be needing to turn the knob back up.

I have some cosmetic work left. Need to reroute lines, fab a bracket for the ps pump, and tie some lines up.

I haven't poured over the log yet but the initial glance looks like iats are hovering about 40-50 degrees over ambient during highway cruise conditions. That means I was seeing low 100s today. If it stays linear it would mean 120-140 during the summer. FYI that's what the non intercooled whipple ran. There might be a tvs in my future or I'm going to stay with e85 all the time.

The butt dyno is saying over 600rwhp right now if it's not pulling timing. I'm fairly certain that the 12:1 compression has a lot to do with it.

Man I know it's not apples to apples but that's high highway cruising iats. ..I'm no near that.

 

[crownaviation]

Just stumbled across this.. had no idea you were doing one lol (that or I am so busy I can't remember who is on what base).

About IAT's.. the stock gt500 plumbing (for clearance issues) stinks and the oem single pass heatexchanger is one of the first mods people do with their gt500. Priming is a pita for most setups and I occasionally get "lucky" and have them prime without a fight. I suspect your system may be losing prime (although not common once completely primed). Is your bosch pump new? Those pumps don't last forever either. Steve at Tasca sells them new with bracket for about $120 if yours goes out but would recommend Meziere before I bought another Bosch. I do like the Meziere pump for this as it has a bleed screw and it only takes a couple minutes. Plus, that pump can easily be installed to bottom feed the heat exchanger like 90% of cooling systems in the world configure theirs.

The M122 will make heat if pushed hard. Porting helps some (if targeting same hp range) so you can slow the rotors down but if you can't or don't want to port it yourself then it is better to upgrade to a TVS. The 13/14 TVS new takeoff with the massive inlet (compared to the m122) is coming down. I have seen new takeoffs go for as low as $1500 shipped with elbow. Not the norm, but $1600 gets one all day long in the last few months. The two blowers are worlds apart in overall performance. Heat is dramatically reduced and makes a ton more boost. The TVS likes to eat up top also which is nice cause the roots blowers almost make "too much" torque down low to be useful unless you like to smoke the tires. The m122 is a good low to mid range blower and gets the job done but the TVS is a clear victor in all corners. Since you have a built motor/drivetrain that is what would be on my Christmas list. The TVS will bolt right up to the DOB gt450 manifold and retain all the plumbing etc. Simple. You will need a 8-rib belt setup tho if using the tvs anywhere near its potential. That and a larger cai for the tvs if you were ever interested in maxxing out the blower (I used a JLT 127 and maf counts were still in the high 900's with stock maf sensor).

Let me know if you have any questions and congrats on the install!

Edit BTW.. If you were good at solving belt geometry stuff and were willing to fork out the dough for a snout from Whipple then I would bet the 2.9 could work on the gt450 manifold. The key will be the belt. For that blower I would really want a dedicated belt system tho and that is where the rub is. Innovators West will make you any custom SFI approved balancer as long as you have the spec. If Jason had a blower with the correct drive installed I bet he could make a crank balancer setup using the ATI damper like they do with the R-spec. Just thinking out loud here.. but I really do think it can work. With your compression that thing would be a nasty combo. Problem with mounting the 2.9 on the gt450 manifold is expense. Whipple will charge $400 for the drive and about that much for labor (and you need them to install it unless you are real familiar with the timing system of the rotors). So.. $1000 all said and done in you hands for the blower modded and nobody has done the belt system yet. Price has been the inhibitor and thus far nobody willing to be guinea pig. I though about it but opted for the r-spec as it has even more cooling mods and was designed around the big Whipples

 

[BruceH]

Where do I get one of those? Lol.

have a plunger?

when was that dyno last calibrated?

It's been awhile, lol.

Tvs tvs tvs tvs

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Be quiet evil one.

Man I know it's not apples to apples but that's high highway cruising iats. ..I'm no near that.

I know. The whipple was very steady at 10-20 over ambient. The sensor for the whipple was right in the intake runner, about the hottest spot it could be imo.

Just stumbled across this.. had no idea you were doing one lol (that or I am so busy I can't remember who is on what base).

About IAT's.. the stock gt500 plumbing (for clearance issues) stinks and the oem single pass heatexchanger is one of the first mods people do with their gt500. Priming is a pita for most setups and I occasionally get "lucky" and have them prime without a fight. I suspect your system may be losing prime (although not common once completely primed). Is your bosch pump new? Those pumps don't last forever either. Steve at Tasca sells them new with bracket for about $120 if yours goes out but would recommend Meziere before I bought another Bosch. I do like the Meziere pump for this as it has a bleed screw and it only takes a couple minutes. Plus, that pump can easily be installed to bottom feed the heat exchanger like 90% of cooling systems in the world configure theirs.

The M122 will make heat if pushed hard. Porting helps some (if targeting same hp range) so you can slow the rotors down but if you can't or don't want to port it yourself then it is better to upgrade to a TVS. The 13/14 TVS new takeoff with the massive inlet (compared to the m122) is coming down. I have seen new takeoffs go for as low as $1500 shipped with elbow. Not the norm, but $1600 gets one all day long in the last few months. The two blowers are worlds apart in overall performance. Heat is dramatically reduced and makes a ton more boost. The TVS likes to eat up top also which is nice cause the roots blowers almost make "too much" torque down low to be useful unless you like to smoke the tires. The m122 is a good low to mid range blower and gets the job done but the TVS is a clear victor in all corners. Since you have a built motor/drivetrain that is what would be on my Christmas list. The TVS will bolt right up to the DOB gt450 manifold and retain all the plumbing etc. Simple. You will need a 8-rib belt setup tho if using the tvs anywhere near its potential. That and a larger cai for the tvs if you were ever interested in maxxing out the blower (I used a JLT 127 and maf counts were still in the high 900's with stock maf sensor).

Let me know if you have any questions and congrats on the install!

Edit BTW.. If you were good at solving belt geometry stuff and were willing to fork out the dough for a snout from Whipple then I would bet the 2.9 could work on the gt450 manifold. The key will be the belt. For that blower I would really want a dedicated belt system tho and that is where the rub is. Innovators West will make you any custom SFI approved balancer as long as you have the spec. If Jason had a blower with the correct drive installed I bet he could make a crank balancer setup using the ATI damper like they do with the R-spec. Just thinking out loud here.. but I really do think it can work. With your compression that thing would be a nasty combo. Problem with mounting the 2.9 on the gt450 manifold is expense. Whipple will charge $400 for the drive and about that much for labor (and you need them to install it unless you are real familiar with the timing system of the rotors). So.. $1000 all said and done in you hands for the blower modded and nobody has done the belt system yet. Price has been the inhibitor and thus far nobody willing to be guinea pig. I though about it but opted for the r-spec as it has even more cooling mods and was designed around the big Whipples

The last time I checked Whipple will sell a different sized snout for $300 and that's with bearings, ready to go.

So far I'm not having any belt slip. I have a Roush tensioner that hasn't been used yet because of this. Also have a frankentensioner kit that hasn't been assembled.

Figured out the intercooler pump problem. I had purchased stock gt500 hoses for the pump and reservoir just to make sure there wouldn't be any issues. It turns out the feeder hose can go in a few different ways. I had it installed in a way that created a trap like with a sink.

Once I looked at it real close another way to route the preformed hose was seen. When it was rerouted a lot of air bubbles came out and now it works great without being primed.

 

[crownaviation]

Where do I get one of those? Lol.





It's been awhile, lol.



Be quiet evil one.




I know. The whipple was very steady at 10-20 over ambient. The sensor for the whipple was right in the intake runner, about the hottest spot it could be imo.




The last time I checked Whipple will sell a different sized snout for $300 and that's with bearings, ready to go.

So far I'm not having any belt slip. I have a Roush tensioner that hasn't been used yet because of this. Also have a frankentensioner kit that hasn't been assembled.

Figured out the intercooler pump problem. I had purchased stock gt500 hoses for the pump and reservoir just to make sure there wouldn't be any issues. It turns out the feeder hose can go in a few different ways. I had it installed in a way that created a trap like with a sink.

Once I looked at it real close another way to route the preformed hose was seen. When it was rerouted a lot of air bubbles came out and now it works great without being primed.

Good deal on the pump.

and uhmmm... I specifically asked how much to install a snout with a 3 5/16 drive. Was told $430. COOL! well,, that did not include shipping, OR THE SNOUT (I kinda felt I was misled on the phone although I doubt it was intentional). Was almost $1000 all said and done with labor (for changing the snout), parts (snout) tax and shipping (insured for $5k iirc). I was a little perturbed when I reviewed the bill. THEIR website had the drive listed MUCH cheaper than I was charged. When I asked about it they said "hum.. did not know that was even listed on the website.. and that price is old". They would not honor the website price.. and even worse.. IT WAS STILL ON THERE a couple weeks ago for the "OLD" price.. sigh.