Eforce supercharger intercooler problem

[01yellerCobra]

Wow! I can't believe they would do that. Guess that forces the tuner to lower the temp setpoint at which timing start getting pulled.

I'm no expert either, just trying to share some information and learn something at the same time. Banish's reference to "shift" in his book "advanced tuning" must be done as you are describing. Either that or full blown tuning software like Lito and others use have a lot more versatility than something like Proracer.

I look forward to getting my car paid off. Then when I don't have to worry about bricking it or throwing a rod and having to make a payment on it still, I want to pick up Proracer software or something compatible and give it a try. I'd love to create my own air and fuel tables, etc. I think by taking the time to do it myself and not doing it for profit, I can get the tables tighter than a hired tuner, it will just take me longer and the hands on learning curve and patience to get it right.

And as usual 01yellow - go eat another Carne Asada Burrito for me at Romero's located on Mission Blvd just north of Garnett in Pacific Beach.

When that time comes I would look into HP. I don't mind tuning my car. Being able to take the time to do it makes a difference.

Lol. Unfortunately I have to stay away from burritos for a bit. Have some career plans that involve needing to be a little less round in the middle.

 

[Johnstone]

A lot of you are very knowledgeable its much appreciated.
I think one issue iI need to address s that my over all engine is hot i dont think Im getting enough air.
Maybe getting a functional scoop or something not to crazy to try get fresh air..

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[Wes06]

Most hood scoops don't actually pull in air .they expell it on our cars .

You want vented hoods similar to the gt500 hood to evacuate air out of the engine bay, especially if you have an aftermarket billet style grille like mine

 

[Johnstone]

Most hood scoops don't actually pull in air .they expell it on our cars .

You want vented hoods similar to the gt500 hood to evacuate air out of the engine bay, especially if you have an aftermarket billet style grille like mine

I need to find air source for my CAI.. it doesnt seem efficient at the moment.

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[07 Boss]

What do you mean always? Do you regularly flush it?

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I've had to drain the system 3-4 times for other maintenance issues over the past 5 years or so. But I would suggest changing all fluids about every 30K miles or so anyways.

 

[Johnstone]

I was too hopeful on the sensor being the problem. I changed it. Temp was stable @168 which is stil to hot AND tonight was a cool breezy night.

Pump is next.

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[Pentalab]

I need to find air source for my CAI.. it doesnt seem efficient at the moment.

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What year is your car ??? It's been years since I have looked at the E-force manual. I forget where they locate the IAT sensor.

With the DE-gas lid off, you should see the water circulating. Put your finger into it...and feel if it is warm, hot, cool.

 

[Johnstone]

What year is your car ??? It's been years since I have looked at the E-force manual. I forget where they locate the IAT sensor.

2010.. its at the top end.

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[1950StangJump$]

Maybe its been addressed and I missed it . . . under what conditions did the IATs see 176? Remember, if sitting at idle, there is very little air being sucked into the intake. The best intercooler in the world won't help you if you are sitting at idle in hot weather for long periods of time -- there is virtually no air to go over the intercooler so the IAT sensor just sits and gets heat soaked by the engine. 176 is pretty high, but I will see 140's if I just sit and idle for long periods of time in 90+ heat. If you are driving down the road, that's different. Mine will immediately begin dropping as soon as you crack the throttle and start sending air into the intake and over the intercooler.

Also, unless your tune is totally junk, it is pulling timing when your IATs get high. So, high IATs shouldn't mean you're going to "blow" your engine. It just means that the car isn't giving you as much power as it could. The amount of drop in HP will be proportionate to how high the temps get. In other words, if timing starts to get pulled at 130, you lose very little power when the IATs are 135. By the time you get to 176, there will undoubtedly be a bunch of timing pulled.

Lastly, I am not clear whether you are truly seeing air in the system or you are seeing the effects of normal coolant flow as it hits the overflow bottle. But, if you are seeing air .... does your system go from the overflow bottle straight to the pump? If so, does the line fall beneath the pump on the way, thus creating a "U" shape as it loops up? If so, you will catch air pockets there that will stop coolant flow. Remember, there will always be small amounts of air in the coolant . . . the trick is avoiding places it could get trapped and block the system so that the pump can continue to push fluid through. If there are no places for it to trap, simply running the pump for a few minutes should push everything through with no need to burp or pressurize or any other jazz.

 

[Johnstone]

Maybe its been addressed and I missed it . . . under what conditions did the IATs see 176? Remember, if sitting at idle, there is very little air being sucked into the intake. The best intercooler in the world won't help you if you are sitting at idle in hot weather for long periods of time -- there is virtually no air to go over the intercooler so the IAT sensor just sits and gets heat soaked by the engine. 176 is pretty high, but I will see 140's if I just sit and idle for long periods of time in 90+ heat. If you are driving down the road, that's different. Mine will immediately begin dropping as soon as you crack the throttle and start sending air into the intake and over the intercooler.

Also, unless your tune is totally junk, it is pulling timing when your IATs get high. So, high IATs shouldn't mean you're going to "blow" your engine. It just means that the car isn't giving you as much power as it could. The amount of drop in HP will be proportionate to how high the temps get. In other words, if timing starts to get pulled at 130, you lose very little power when the IATs are 135. By the time you get to 176, there will undoubtedly be a bunch of timing pulled.

Lastly, I am not clear whether you are truly seeing air in the system or you are seeing the effects of normal coolant flow as it hits the overflow bottle. But, if you are seeing air .... does your system go from the overflow bottle straight to the pump? If so, does the line fall beneath the pump on the way, thus creating a "U" shape as it loops up? If so, you will catch air pockets there that will stop coolant flow. Remember, there will always be small amounts of air in the coolant . . . the trick is avoiding places it could get trapped and block the system so that the pump can continue to push fluid through. If there are no places for it to trap, simply running the pump for a few minutes should push everything through with no need to burp or pressurize or any other jazz.

Thank you for your insight.. the temp hits 176 when at doing a WOT... at idle im at 145-148 depending how hot its outside.
Ill check my line again see for any loops.

When i check my reservoir i see the pump draining and it takes like 5 ..6 sec for the return to complete.

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[1950StangJump$]

Okay, running 176 at WOT is pretty high. Likely, it is costing you HP as the computer pulls timing.

I run a Kenne Bell with the stock intercooler and heat exchanger. It has a reputation for running hot -- I have only seen it though when sitting at idle for long periods. And, as soon as I gas it and the throttle blade opens to air, the temp drops. While moving, if I go from cruising to WOT, the IATs drop for a second or two as the air begins rushing in, and then the temps climb as boost builds.

But, I have never seen it go higher than the 130's while moving, even at WOT. I guess it would be possible to go considerably higher if I let it idle for a long time on a hot day, then immediately went WOT from a standstill -- essentially getting the IATs hot from idle and not allowing them to cool down for more than a second or two before building boost.

So, unless you are doing that, I would theorize that the other posts here are correct and that you have a circulation problem. The only other consideration would be if your IAT sensor is incorrect . . . or Lito is incorrect -- not sure if you said you have your own gauge or are going solely off what he told you.

 

[Johnstone]

Okay, running 176 at WOT is pretty high. Likely, it is costing you HP as the computer pulls timing.

I run a Kenne Bell with the stock intercooler and heat exchanger. It has a reputation for running hot -- I have only seen it though when sitting at idle for long periods. And, as soon as I gas it and the throttle blade opens to air, the temp drops. While moving, if I go from cruising to WOT, the IATs drop for a second or two as the air begins rushing in, and then the temps climb as boost builds.

But, I have never seen it go higher than the 130's while moving, even at WOT. I guess it would be possible to go considerably higher if I let it idle for a long time on a hot day, then immediately went WOT from a standstill -- essentially getting the IATs hot from idle and not allowing them to cool down for more than a second or two before building boost.

So, unless you are doing that, I would theorize that the other posts here are correct and that you have a circulation problem. The only other consideration would be if your IAT sensor is incorrect . . . or Lito is incorrect -- not sure if you said you have your own gauge or are going solely off what he told you.

Im loggig with my laptop and livewire.

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[1950StangJump$]

Okay. Check on that loop. When I first got my car in the fall of 2017, I had intermittent circulation problems. The line going from the overflow to the pump looped down below the pump level and then back up to the pump. This gave a place for air to trap. Cut off about 4 inches of it and made the line more direct to the pump, and the problem was fixed.

 

[Pentalab]

2010.. its at the top end.

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Ok, I just downloaded the entire E-force manual for the 2010. IAT sensor is only mentioned once... ( Item #115). Sez it's located at the rear, passenger side of super charger.

The de-gas bottle ( they call it recovery tank)... is sorta goofy setup, it hangs on a bracket, on pass side... on the inboard pair of studs for the strut (Item #82).

They show only one hose going from recovery tank....over to the manifold. So it's NOT like the roush setup, where coolant goes into top of de-gas..and out the bottom. On the E force, the recovery tank hangs off to one side..... identical to the oem expansion tank...hanging off the oem eng rad.

I highly suspect you have air trapped in there. And with 176 deg IAT, there would be a LOT of timing pulled.... like 90% of it. If you had gauges plugged into the obd port, you could see the timing being pulled at a glance. At 176 F, my guess it would be down to just a few degrees.

I also have a 2010.. ( with roush M90 blower). The upper grille on the 2010 is useless, toss it. It highly restricts the air, since it's 80% blocked off to begin with.
Get the 7 bar grille. ( upper fog lamp delete). The 7 bar grille also solves another issue, it eliminates the 2 x 90 deg bends that feed air into the 'snorkel' that in turn feed air into the oem air box. With the 7 bar grille installed, you can then see the 'snorkel' way over to the right, on driver's side. Snorkel is vert oriented.
Edelbrock toss's the oem air box lid, and uses their own top lid.... (and also supplies a better panel filter... instead of oem paper filter). Roush does the same thing on the 2010, air box lid is tossed, and replaced with a roush top lid. (I used a K+N panel filter).

You have air trapped in the loop some where. (Edelbrock also uses the same Bosch IC pump as Roush. )

 

[1950StangJump$]

With an OBD gauge like an Aeroforce, how do you read if timing is being pulled? What gauge setting and what is normal compared to what we would see when it is pulled?

 

[Pentalab]

With an OBD gauge like an Aeroforce, how do you read if timing is being pulled? What gauge setting and what is normal compared to what we would see when it is pulled?

In NA mode, cruising, it can be as high as 39 degs. It all depends on if u are on a level surface, what gear, if going up hill, which gear, etc, etc. However, mash the gas, turn blower on, and
watch the timing. Each aeroforce gauge can display 2 items at once. ( each can be selected to any of 32 items on the list). Program intake air as one item..and timing on the other. 176 F is looney tunes. That means he has no coolant circulating.

Since the edelbrock de-gas only has one line to it, you would never even know the IC pump is functioning. I'd start with the IC pump fuse. Replacement Bosch pumps are aprx $150.00 You can buy em anywhere. Same pump is used on dozens of different vehicles.

 

[eighty6gt]

Isn't 176 normal for an eforce?


I wonder if it was Kenne with the sensor trick. Very sly!

@Pentalab did your hear my plane go over your house at 7 this morning??!

 

[KRS]

I believe the E-force uses 2300 TVS rotor pack and they run relatively cool compared to some other superchargers.

This is a long shot but did you double check to make sure one of the heater hoses wasn’t accidentally connected to the intercooler. Warm the engine up for a few minutes, if the intercooler lines are hot then there is an issue.

If the coolant is swirling the coolant tank the pump is likely fine. I’m pretty sure it’s a flow through tank with two hoses. If it “bubbling” then there is an issue.

Did you try calling Edelbrock Tech support?

 

[Johnstone]

I believe the E-force uses 2300 TVS rotor pack and they run relatively cool compared to some other superchargers.

This is a long shot but did you double check to make sure one of the heater hoses wasn’t accidentally connected to the intercooler. Warm the engine up for a few minutes, if the intercooler lines are hot then there is an issue.

If the coolant is swirling the coolant tank the pump is likely fine. I’m pretty sure it’s a flow through tank with two hoses. If it “bubbling” then there is an issue.

Did you try calling Edelbrock Tech support?

Yes i called edelbrock and they asked me to check the AIT sensor and the pump.

Changed the sensor and nothing changed. I got the pump and ill check my hoses as well.. hopefully this week. Ill definitely update this thread once I do.

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[Pentalab]

Yes i called edelbrock and they asked me to check the AIT sensor and the pump.

Changed the sensor and nothing changed. I got the pump and ill check my hoses as well.. hopefully this week. Ill definitely update this thread once I do.

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Are there 2 hoses going to the de-gas bottle that hangs off the strut..or just one ? With anything plugged into the obd port, you will see the timing being pulled. Once the issue is resolved, then you can see any redux in timing being pulled.