Eforce supercharger intercooler problem

[Johnstone]

So im getting a new tune done by Lito ( best in the business) and he tells me that my air intake is reaching 176 deegree!!!

Im freaking out because ive been pretty heavy on the pedal lately and could of blown the engine.

How to diagnose the problem!?
Pump seems good..
I hear it and i see the fluid bubbling in reservoir. Tired pump?
What else should i look for for?

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[Wes06]

if its bubbling, it could have air stuck in the loop.
any way you can try to purge the air out beyond just having it run?

 

[Pentalab]

This is why you vac fill the entire IC/HE / pump loop. He could have air trapped deep inside the loop somewhere..with little to no coolant flowing though the IC..rendering it in-effective.

 

[Johnstone]

So how would i do this? Changing the fluid? Can i bleed an IC?

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[01yellerCobra]

If it's just bubbling I'd say either the pump is going bad or there's air in the system. I've always been told the coolant in the tank should look like a spa with the jets turned on. And mine definitely does.

The first thing I'd try is tapping on the pump. Depending on the mileage it might be going out. If the flow goes up when you tap on it then its time for a new pump.

For purging the system I've always jumped the relay and then let it run while filling up the reservoir. I've heard of some people needing to pressurize the reservoir to get it to prime. And it could be as simple as cupping your hands over the opening and blowing into it.

 

[Johnstone]

If it's just bubbling I'd say either the pump is going bad or there's air in the system. I've always been told the coolant in the tank should look like a spa with the jets turned on. And mine definitely does.

The first thing I'd try is tapping on the pump. Depending on the mileage it might be going out. If the flow goes up when you tap on it then its time for a new pump.

For purging the system I've always jumped the relay and then let it run while filling up the reservoir. I've heard of some people needing to pressurize the reservoir to get it to prime. And it could be as simple as cupping your hands over the opening and blowing into it.

Ill try tapping the pump tonight

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[Pentalab]

If it's bubbling in the De-gas reservoir, it's air. With everything normal, it should resemble spa jets in the de-gas bottle..... with coolant going in the top of the de-gas.....and exiting the bottom of the de-gas. You can also try squeezing /tapping/wiggling the lines going in /out of the IC pump..to try and purge any air outa the lines. Once that air is released..and gets into the top of the de-gas..its gone, issue solved. With air trapped inside the loop....which could be trapped in more than once place, the pump will at times cavitate.

Most tuners will tweak the tune so that the ecu starts to pull timing when the IAT's hit aprx 135F. Then pull more and more timing as IAT temps rise even more. With 176 F, it shoulda pulled a TON of timing.... which will of course reduce hp/tq..by a bunch. I use an aeroforce gauge plugged into the OBD port at all times. Then I can see the timing..and also the IAT inside the manifold.... simultaneously. Then I know what's normal..and when things are not normal. The aeroforce gauges are nice, you can program visual / and /or audible alarms if want, like..."IAT exceeded user defined threshold".

When I had the roush blower installed years ago, they vac filled the IC /HE loop..and also the eng coolant loop. Zero issues. Those vac fill hand pumps are readily available.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

One thing I haven't see addressed is what your water to antifreeze mixture is. The more water (Distilled water is the best) the more heat can be pulled. Because I have no desire to keep mine swapped from summer to winter I run 60/40 water to antifreeze or I would run 100% DI water in the summer. If you are in a tropic climate and aren't I suggest running pure distilled water or 90/10. Even if you find other issues this is something to consider.

Double check to make sure someone didn't kink the hoses on the intercooler system if you did not do the install yourself. If you did, double check it anyway. Also make sure nothing has gotten blocked in front of the H.E. like paper or other trash that could block airflow.

"Pump seems good" doesn't eliminate it from the equation. Pull the pump and do a flow test on it. Get a bucket of water and fill it with a gallon or two gallons of water. Time how long the pump takes to empty it. Then do the math. If you are not aware of the flow rate on the pump call Edelbrock and find out. The 411 on the pump should be on the 'boiler plate' (pump plate for the paper pushers) on the pump assembly.

If you have increased the boost on the setup from the stock config, it may be that you are over working the HE and need to upgrade to resolve the issue. A higher volume pump could also help with the existing system.

I love my triple pass dual 11" fan H.E. Does a great job. Good luck.

 

[07 Boss]

I always just fill mine up from the reservoir and drive around the block. That usually gets the pump to prime and then I just top it off.

I always use just distilled water and water wetter with a drop of coolant. Same in my regular cooling system.

 

[Johnstone]

I always just fill mine up from the reservoir and drive around the block. That usually gets the pump to prime and then I just top it off.

I always use just distilled water and water wetter with a drop of coolant. Same in my regular cooling system.

What do you mean always? Do you regularly flush it?

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[Johnstone]

One thing I haven't see addressed is what your water to antifreeze mixture is. The more water (Distilled water is the best) the more heat can be pulled. Because I have no desire to keep mine swapped from summer to winter I run 60/40 water to antifreeze or I would run 100% DI water in the summer. If you are in a tropic climate and aren't I suggest running pure distilled water or 90/10. Even if you find other issues this is something to consider.

Double check to make sure someone didn't kink the hoses on the intercooler system if you did not do the install yourself. If you did, double check it anyway. Also make sure nothing has gotten blocked in front of the H.E. like paper or other trash that could block airflow.

"Pump seems good" doesn't eliminate it from the equation. Pull the pump and do a flow test on it. Get a bucket of water and fill it with a gallon or two gallons of water. Time how long the pump takes to empty it. Then do the math. If you are not aware of the flow rate on the pump call Edelbrock and find out. The 411 on the pump should be on the 'boiler plate' (pump plate for the paper pushers) on the pump assembly.

If you have increased the boost on the setup from the stock config, it may be that you are over working the HE and need to upgrade to resolve the issue. A higher volume pump could also help with the existing system.

I love my triple pass dual 11" fan H.E. Does a great job. Good luck.

Thank you for that detailed response. Very appreciated. Thanks!

Going to test motor tomorrow morning. The tech @Edelbrock also ask to make sure i'm not getting false readings from the intake sensor. He said its common when custom tuning.

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[01yellerCobra]

I can't see how a tune would affect the IAT reading. At least I've never seen it. The tune doesn't adjust how the sensor reads.

 

[Johnstone]

I can't see how a tune would affect the IAT reading. At least I've never seen it. The tune doesn't adjust how the sensor reads.

Not sure why he would say that.. im not very knowledgeable with technical issues as you can see lol

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[01yellerCobra]

Not sure why he would say that.. im not very knowledgeable with technical issues as you can see lol

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I'm not saying it isn't possible. Just not something I've heard of.

 

[Wes06]

Probably them just pushing blame away from their field onto someone else .

 

[redfirepearlgt]

Thank you for that detailed response. Very appreciated. Thanks!

Going to test motor tomorrow morning. The tech @Edelbrock also ask to make sure i'm not getting false readings from the intake sensor. He said its common when custom tuning.

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What the guy was suggesting as I read this is to make sure that the IAT2 sensor is reading correctly, and/or not damaged. IAT's that aren't reading accurately can be corrected in the tune as I understand Greg Banish's explanation on the topic of tuning and IAT/IAT2 input values.

That said with respect to PD design the location of the IAT2 sensor in a PD application is critical. The closer to the cylinder head the more accurate the value will be. This location may vary from design to design so tuners may choose to relocate the IAT2 sensor if/when at all possible, or they can compensate in the tune for the deviation from actual to what the sensor is monitoring according to how I understand the basics of location.

BTW IAT temps in non intercooled FI applications can run as high as 300F. The tune simply has to compensate for this.

 

[01yellerCobra]

What the guy was suggesting as I read this is to make sure that the IAT2 sensor is reading correctly, and/or not damaged. IAT's that aren't reading accurately can be corrected in the tune as I understand Greg Banish's explanation on the topic of tuning and IAT/IAT2 input values.

That said with respect to PD design the location of the IAT2 sensor in a PD application is critical. The closer to the cylinder head the more accurate the value will be. This location may vary from design to design so tuners may choose to relocate the IAT2 sensor if/when at all possible, or they can compensate in the tune for the deviation from actual to what the sensor is monitoring according to how I understand the basics of location.

BTW IAT temps in non intercooled FI applications can run as high as 300F. The tune simply has to compensate for this.

But are they actually changing how the sensor reads or are they just modifying the IAT table? There is a table that can be adjusted to pull timing at a specific temp. It's not actually changing the sensor reading. It's just changing when it pulls timing according to what the sensor is saying.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

But are they actually changing how the sensor reads or are they just modifying the IAT table? There is a table that can be adjusted to pull timing at a specific temp. It's not actually changing the sensor reading. It's just changing when it pulls timing according to what the sensor is saying.

The book I have read on tuning doesn't elaborate on that. Only that a "shift" can be performed. Whether that is done by manipulating the IAT2/timing table data or actually through a correction factor in an IAT2 table as one would do when calibrating air flow on the MAF I cannot answer. Either way that would be in the hands of a tuner.

Again I believe that the seller is speaking with respect to the function/condition of the sensor itself more so than anything. I can't imagine Edelbrock would not have an optimum location to place the IAT2 sensor on their setup.

 

[01yellerCobra]

The book I have read on tuning doesn't elaborate on that. Only that a "shift" can be performed. Whether that is done by manipulating the IAT2/timing table data or actually through a correction factor in an IAT2 table as one would do when calibrating air flow on the MAF I cannot answer. Either way that would be in the hands of a tuner.

Again I believe that the seller is speaking with respect to the function/condition of the sensor itself more so than anything. I can't imagine Edelbrock would not have an optimum location to place the IAT2 sensor on their setup.

I'm no expert. I only have experience in the software I work with. In it I can't correct for an IAT error. But I can adjust when and how much timing is pulled based on the air temp.

I don't know that I'd go that far on placement. A couple months ago it was brought to light about a popular supercharger for the 03/04 crowd doesn't run as cool as advertised. They made it so the sensor doesn't stick out as far into the air stream. So it's only seeing a portion of what it should. Whether it was done on purpose or not they never said.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

I'm no expert. I only have experience in the software I work with. In it I can't correct for an IAT error. But I can adjust when and how much timing is pulled based on the air temp.

I don't know that I'd go that far on placement. A couple months ago it was brought to light about a popular supercharger for the 03/04 crowd doesn't run as cool as advertised. They made it so the sensor doesn't stick out as far into the air stream. So it's only seeing a portion of what it should. Whether it was done on purpose or not they never said.

Wow! I can't believe they would do that. Guess that forces the tuner to lower the temp setpoint at which timing start getting pulled.

I'm no expert either, just trying to share some information and learn something at the same time. Banish's reference to "shift" in his book "advanced tuning" must be done as you are describing. Either that or full blown tuning software like Lito and others use have a lot more versatility than something like Proracer.

I look forward to getting my car paid off. Then when I don't have to worry about bricking it or throwing a rod and having to make a payment on it still, I want to pick up Proracer software or something compatible and give it a try. I'd love to create my own air and fuel tables, etc. I think by taking the time to do it myself and not doing it for profit, I can get the tables tighter than a hired tuner, it will just take me longer and the hands on learning curve and patience to get it right.

And as usual 01yellow - go eat another Carne Asada Burrito for me at Romero's located on Mission Blvd just north of Garnett in Pacific Beach.