Eibach Multi Pro R2

[zquez]

Noooo...! The E30..

 

[jymontoya]

Unless you are on Dot-R tires or slicks, I'd start with a 450f/175r and a stiff front bar.

This assumes the rear springs are in the stock location, not an outboard coilover, and that you have taken care of alignment issues with bushings, camber plates, and an adjustable PHB or Watts and rear arm relocators if you are lowered.

Sounds like a lot? Start with springs and a front bar and then address the rest of it as you get tired of being held back.

In my experience you can use stiffer rear springs than that if you have lowered your rear roll center with a Watts link or PHB (that does that).

I'm at 450f/250r (rears are true coilovers) right now, and it was too much rear roll rate without the Watts link. I had to remove the rear sway bar to make it work for a weekend on the track before I could install the Watts link. After the Watts install, I dropped the RC an extra notch, and added the rear sway bar back on. Felt great, but I'll agree with the others here, adding the stiffer adj. front bar really helped 'dial it in', and I'm currently running it on full stiff with great results.

My experience is on the Continental Grand AM scrubs, ie 'slicks', but I've also run my streets on the track without any other change, I don't see a problem there either, other than the limit being far less.

 

[steve13gt]

Alignment issues? So far car sits as

Eibach Multi Pro R2
Whiteline Rear LCA
Whiteline PHB
Whiteline Relocation Brackets

Vorshlag Plates are in the works, once I can get the measurements to order them.

Unless you are on Dot-R tires or slicks, I'd start with a 450f/175r and a stiff front bar.

This assumes the rear springs are in the stock location, not an outboard coilover, and that you have taken care of alignment issues with bushings, camber plates, and an adjustable PHB or Watts and rear arm relocators if you are lowered.

Sounds like a lot? Start with springs and a front bar and then address the rest of it as you get tired of being held back.

Edit: Holy fuck this thread is blowing up, there is like 5 posts before I can answer haha

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

I think I asked this before but I will ask again, because I don't know if I got a straight answer

Would 350 front 250 Rear be a good place to start, or am I starting too far off. I'd rather get close in my driveway then tune from there, I don't have access to a track constantly, I have to drive pretty far, and I don't have much time there once I do get there..

I also have some 225 springs, I could run in the rear. I didn't really notice a problem in ride comfort with 250 rear but if its hindering my performance, they have to go.

Steve - I know that I've given you "a straight answer", four times when you have asked me in four PMs "is 350 front and 250 rear a good place to start?" I told you my opinion (no, that is too stiff in the rear relative to the front; this will make for less than ideal handling balance), as have several others, but you seem to keep asking about this spring package repeatedly. Maybe until you hear what you want to hear? I'm not trying to pick on you, but it seems like that spring package is what you are going to use, regardless of advice. Just know that people with plenty of competitive S197 track and testing experience have tried to warn you away from that 350F/250R set-up.

But luckily rear springs are easy to change at the track on an S197 and on other similar cars, if you bring along a few tools and springs. If you can get your hands on softer springs in the proper diameter and length, and a good GPS lap timer to verify lap times, try it yourself. This is one of the easiest things to change in testing (as shown above at one of our test-n-tune events), and when we're starting out with gross balance changes we sweep through several sets of rear spring rates first, then start making smaller changes by tweaking bars, camber, tire pressure, and the like. Front spring changes on McStrut cars take more tools (impact gun, etc) and time, but that can also make substantial balance and roll changes.

Good luck,

 

[steve13gt]

I thought I had an answer, that's why I said I basically couldn't remember. I wiped out my inbox and couldn't find the info. Thanks


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[908ssp]

Dean from Rehagen says "I have not seen the specs you're talking about, but the front rates should be close to double the rear. The Boss 302S car is going to be something close to 500 front, 325 rear."

There is no one right answer. One mans garbage is another mans treasure.

 

[steve13gt]

500 to 325 is about 1.5x
350 to 225 is also 1.5

Just putting it out there, I know I've been told it is wrong


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[sheizasosay]

Dean from Rehagen says "I have not seen the specs you're talking about, but the front rates should be close to double the rear. The Boss 302S car is going to be something close to 500 front, 325 rear."

There is no one right answer. One mans garbage is another mans treasure.

Dean running a rear bar?


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[DRock]

My rear spring is roughly 280 and I feel that it is too much. I'm trying to get a less stiff spring. The ride is a bit rough.

 

[sheizasosay]

What do you think Bilstein knows that Koni does not? Spring rate requires rebound damping to control it. Bilstein's have a set valving, it's not adjustable (see also that they are now making damping adjustable stuff for some of their coil-overs because they know that what they claim isn't really possible)... so how exactly do you square their claim of up to 500 lbs/in including everything less, like stock *without* the ability to adjust? The only way is if they were valved stiff enough to damp the 500, and then you just deal with a shit-ton of rebound that is severely overdamping anything less.

What you are believing is that Bilstein's are magic and can do it all. I'm sorry they can't. If they could, why would they make HD and Sport vavling for a lot of cars? They don't for the Mustang, but they do for a lot of cars and if they could do it all without adjustment there'd be no need to do that, right?

You're making a lot of sense. Thanks for the breakdown. I can't help it, I still want to get them dyno'd. Call me whiskers... little bit of SNL. When I get the dyno's I'll post them. $20 per damper on the shock dyno isn't gonna be too bad. I can handle that price for curiosity sake and I believe I will learn some things along the way.

 

[Department Of Boost]

My rear spring is roughly 280 and I feel that it is too much. I'm trying to get a less stiff spring. The ride is a bit rough.

That probably has more to do with the rear dampers and how they handle high shaft speeds than anything. I'm running 375lb rear springs and the ride is not bad at all.

 

[Sam Strano]

I'm not sure this will ever end.

FWIW, I've run up to 300 pounds rear, and those were not bad at all on the street. I've also run softer rears that rode like shit (same dampers). What spring rates I'd run would depend greatly on what the use of the car was, and if it's primarily a street car, I'd be looking around the 200-250 range front, 175-225 range rear. I don't think the front springs should be double the rears at all on this car, not at least until you get to stupid high rates up front, like say 500-600+, then hell yes you want double (or more) the rear rate because that much rear spring is just silly IMHO.

Suspension tuning isn't easy, and what one guy likes someone else might not. It's dependent on a LOT of things, including personal preference... so there is no 100% right answer. There is common sense, which is how I tend to look at things. I don't much care that Ford had a stiffer rear than front... it's screwed up. I also don't care they put the front bar in a bind on purpose, I won't do that.

 

[Mike K]

Since this turned in to a spring and damper thread. What is a good track spring that will do decent on the street? I'm not to overly concerned with a little rougher ride as I've got rod end suspension. I plan on getting a quality damper most likely koni.

 

[DRock]

That probably has more to do with the rear dampers and how they handle high shaft speeds than anything. I'm running 375lb rear springs and the ride is not bad at all.

Which i can assure you is a problem. Different springs will be a quick fix and will be changed out before too long

 

[Department Of Boost]

Since this turned in to a spring and damper thread. What is a good track spring that will do decent on the street? I'm not to overly concerned with a little rougher ride as I've got rod end suspension. I plan on getting a quality damper most likely koni.

And there lies the crux of the “problem” with a spring thread. Springs threads in a lot of ways are like “what is the best oil threads”. A lot of it comes down to circumstances (use) and personal preference. You will get 1001 different opinion and most of them will have a good argument for why that setup works best.

Then there is the combo issue. Different combo’s will require different spring rates.

-What swaybar setup are you running? Are you even running a rear bar?

-Do you have a watts link?

-Are you running staggered tires or “square”?

-How much power does the car make?

-What is your driving style?

-What tires are you running?

……and there are only about a hundred more of these.

It is very hard to come up with a one size fits all spring rate.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Different springs will be a quick fix and will be changed out before too long

Maybe, maybe not. What rear dampers are you running?

 

[DRock]

Maybe, maybe not. What rear dampers are you running?

BC Racing Coilovers

 

[Department Of Boost]

BC Racing Coilovers

These?:
http://www.allusasupercenter.com/BC_Racing_BR_Type_Coilover_Suspension_Package_p/e-09.htm

Being a single tube damper they should be able to move a lot of oil during high shaft speeds. Unless the valving is a mess I would think you could get away with stiff springs and still have a pretty good ride.

 

[sheizasosay]

If the R2's are getting called out on some Chinese stuff at $2200 then those BC's being adjustable monotubes that come with CC plates for $1100 have gotta raise some concern. I remember looking at those and couldn't find any credible info. Saleen Racecraft's look similar.


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[OkieSnuffBox]

BC Racing Coilovers

If the R2's are getting called out on some Chinese stuff at $2200 then those BC's being adjustable monotubes that come with CC plates for $1100 have gotta raise some concern.


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I'm not even going to comment on people who buy a $35k car, but put cheaper dampers than come stock on a Kia.

BC, Ksport, etc.........is all Taiwanese built knock offs. Custom valved Bilsteins' and custom valved Koni's are the cheapest stuff I see on cars that are at the track regularly