Failing ECU or? Top tuners chime in.

[05gtowner]

Just noticed my membership info shows I recently joined.

I actually joined shortly after purchasing my first 05 back in December 04.

I posted more than a few times for a couple of years... then dropped off as my focus went from cars to my children.

I had to re-register.... using my old user name.
Maybe inactivity?

But hey.... I've been around, and found this a good forum for my technical needs.

The paranoia is related to a recent change of ownership and many odd things occurring recently. Some have suggested that vendor favoritism may be afoot and your post sounded like someone who is creating a problem seemingly no one can fix only to have it repaired miraculously by a company that is wanting to become a vendor. Hence the directing of threads comment. Also, as someone already suggested there is no way you joined this forum in 2004. Hence another reason why your post raises some red flags. Again not your problem if you are being legitimate.

Anyway that is beside the point, It does seem like you may have at least an issue with your tune since many of your issues seem to be arising from it. I forget did you say it was a manual trans or automatic? You only really have three mods that would require any kind of 'tune' so to speak. The cams, the JLT and removal of the charge motion plates. All of those mods have been performed many times before so they have proven tunes for them. Hell I bet even BAMA could get those right.

 

[psfracer]

to be clear this hesitation only occurs when lifting on the accelerator from a cruising speed to coasting? Never during cruise or acceleration?

 

[86GT351]

Also need to recognize that you say the concern is there with either tune. Both Tunes come from different facilities that neither can figure out your concern. Is it possible they are not as "good" as you think they might be?

 

[maurice05]

to be clear this hesitation only occurs when lifting on the accelerator from a cruising speed to coasting? Never during cruise or acceleration?

Hesitation occurs while maintaining speed when the engine goes into a no-load condition.... essentially the car in no longer accelerating as it has reached the drivers desired speed. It also happens even while the car is in cruise control.

It (hesitation) is VERY noticeable when the car is going down hill, and you lift off the gas.

It is a manual transmission.... no gear, shaft or diff mods.

Also need to recognize that you say the concern is there with either tune. Both Tunes come from different facilities that neither can figure out your concern. Is it possible they are not as "good" as you think they might be?

If you have any ideas or solution personally... I'm listening.

If not... these shops still have my trust, and you dont.

The paranoia is related to a recent change of ownership and many odd things occurring recently. Some have suggested that vendor favoritism may be afoot and your post sounded like someone who is creating a problem seemingly no one can fix only to have it repaired miraculously by a company that is wanting to become a vendor. Hence the directing of threads comment. Also, as someone already suggested there is no way you joined this forum in 2004. Hence another reason why your post raises some red flags. Again not your problem if you are being legitimate.

Anyway that is beside the point, It does seem like you may have at least an issue with your tune since many of your issues seem to be arising from it. I forget did you say it was a manual trans or automatic? You only really have three mods that would require any kind of 'tune' so to speak. The cams, the JLT and removal of the charge motion plates. All of those mods have been performed many times before so they have proven tunes for them. Hell I bet even BAMA could get those right.

Thanks for the heads up.....

I'm not going to cheer on either of the shops I have been working with regarding this problem in a lame attempt to promote one over the other... or even someone that miraculously comes to my rescue.

I simply want ideas for a solution.

So far, there is no evidence to support the idea that the tune is the problem. As the first tune did not have the problem to begin with... and the problem arose after the second tune... and I'm back running the first tune... yet the problem remains.

It is quite a pickle.
But thanks... keep thinking... i'm listening.

 

[86GT351]

If you have any ideas or solution personally... I'm listening.

If not... these shops still have my trust, and you dont.

I am only stating this because I thought you said you trust both of them but neither could help you any longer. Just seems odd that a "reputable" Tuner can't help you diagnose a problem.

Not taking any sides here or making any accusations.

My direct thought would be to:

1.Consider another Tuner. Many on here with great reps. Lito, Lund, etc
2.Post your Data Logs here so some of the more experienced guys that do there own tunes might be able to help.
3.Name the 2 shops not to "out" them in any way but for others to recognize asmyabe they experienced similar issues with these same shops.

 

[86GT351]

Thanks for the heads up.....

I'm not going to cheer on either of the shops I have been working with regarding this problem in a lame attempt to promote one over the other... or even someone that miraculously comes to my rescue.

I simply want ideas for a solution.

So far, there is no evidence to support the idea that the tune is the problem. As the first tune did not have the problem to begin with... and the problem arose after the second tune... and I'm back running the first tune... yet the problem remains.

It is quite a pickle.
But thanks... keep thinking... i'm listening.

With this said, it seems like the issue is with the 2nd tune possibly and then creating an ECU Concern. In your attempt to self diagnose, you installed the 1st tune and now it also has a concern.

Seems like you have a Common Concern in the car and the tunes have possibly gotten corrupted some how.

 

[05gtowner]

With this said, it seems like the issue is with the 2nd tune possibly and then creating an ECU Concern. In your attempt to self diagnose, you installed the 1st tune and now it also has a concern.

Seems like you have a Common Concern in the car and the tunes have possibly gotten corrupted some how.

I agree with nitrostang. I think your second tune corrupted the ecu somehow and when the first tune was reloaded it continued the issue. Also you don't have a whole lot of mods. Like I said before three of them are well known and well plotted by many tuners. With so few mods (no super charger, turbo, headers, lockouts, manifold. nitrous etc) it would really be as easy as finding a new ECU for your year of car (05 and 06 I believe are the same. Just make sure it is a manual trans ecu) having a dealer reflash it to stock then load a new tune based on your mods. I honestly wouldn't trust your two old tunes anymore.

 

[86GT351]

Maurice05.....Where are you located?

 

[maurice05]

I am only stating this because I thought you said you trust both of them but neither could help you any longer. Just seems odd that a "reputable" Tuner can't help you diagnose a problem.

Not taking any sides here or making any accusations.

My direct thought would be to:

1.Consider another Tuner. Many on here with great reps. Lito, Lund, etc
2.Post your Data Logs here so some of the more experienced guys that do there own tunes might be able to help.
3.Name the 2 shops not to "out" them in any way but for others to recognize asmyabe they experienced similar issues with these same shops.

I never said either of the tuner shop cant help me or are unwilling to help me out with the cars problem.

BOTH have been very accommodating to my requests to look over data log files, they give me advice on things to look at, and both consider the issue unresolved... but far from unfix-able. I have not been "dropped".

However... since neither can assume responsibility for the cause of the issue... nor can I place a direct "provable" blame on one of them for the cars issue... hence any diagnostic time would also be considered billable shop time.

And frankly I dont have the time or the financial resources to drop off my car for an indefinite amount of time at an indefinite cost.

Most tuners/shops want hands-on the car.
This costs money.

Posting up on a forum does not.

FYI....
I'm in the greater Raleigh NC area.

I agree with nitrostang. I think your second tune corrupted the ecu somehow and when the first tune was reloaded it continued the issue. Also you don't have a whole lot of mods. Like I said before three of them are well known and well plotted by many tuners. With so few mods (no super charger, turbo, headers, lockouts, manifold. nitrous etc) it would really be as easy as finding a new ECU for your year of car (05 and 06 I believe are the same. Just make sure it is a manual trans ecu) having a dealer reflash it to stock then load a new tune based on your mods. I honestly wouldn't trust your two old tunes anymore.

This may be a viable option.

However.... has anyone ever had the base ECU program become so corrupt that it must be returned to the dealership to be reflashed back to stock? Anyone?

NO DOUBT tuner files can become corrupted.
Cross corruption?

But if I'm not mistaken, the standard SCT Xcal3 is capable of creating its own tune files For the simple mods I have, i should be able to do my own.

The cams are mild enough that comp indicates they will work with the cars stock tune, so no issue there. And the JLT CAI and charge motion delete are suppose to be in there.

Maybe I'll try looking at this.

 

[retfr8flyr]

There have been several cases in the past of the ECU getting corrupted. Nothing recently though. Have you tried flashing the car back to stock with your SCT? If the new tune file corrupted something in the base files, maybe returning it to stock will clear it.

 

[05gtowner]

This may be a viable option.

However.... has anyone ever had the base ECU program become so corrupt that it must be returned to the dealership to be reflashed back to stock? Anyone?

NO DOUBT tuner files can become corrupted.
Cross corruption?

But if I'm not mistaken, the standard SCT Xcal3 is capable of creating its own tune files For the simple mods I have, i should be able to do my own.

The cams are mild enough that comp indicates they will work with the cars stock tune, so no issue there. And the JLT CAI and charge motion delete are suppose to be in there.

Maybe I'll try looking at this.

Yes. The ECU can be so corrupted that it has to go back to ford for a reflash. Also if the tune being loaded is interrupted (battery drain, connector disconnected etc) it can do really odd things to these cars and possibly corrupt the ECU. Have you checked the alternator output? These cars act very weird if the alternator is delivering the proper voltage. Since your issue seems to be coming from decel or steady running it may not be delivering enough and causing a surge or miss. Something to look into at least.

 

[maurice05]

Yes. The ECU can be so corrupted that it has to go back to ford for a reflash. Also if the tune being loaded is interrupted (battery drain, connector disconnected etc) it can do really odd things to these cars and possibly corrupt the ECU. Have you checked the alternator output? These cars act very weird if the alternator is delivering the proper voltage. Since your issue seems to be coming from decel or steady running it may not be delivering enough and causing a surge or miss. Something to look into at least.

OK... the car will be going to the dealership for the airbag recall.

I can have them reflash the computer back to stock.... after I use my Xcal to reflash it also back to stock. Then load my own custom tune from the Xcal for the mods I have and see if this fixes it.

I checked the alternator output voltage with a meter, and data logged it.
Looks OK.

I also checked it for excessive A/C voltage, in case one of the diodes had gone bad. No A/C voltage present.


Thanks for your input.

 

[retfr8flyr]

Make sure you check the strategy code after they flash it. It will most likely be different then what you had and you will need new tunes from your guys, to match the new strategy code.

 

[maurice05]

Make sure you check the strategy code after they flash it. It will most likely be different then what you had and you will need new tunes from your guys, to match the new strategy code.

Good to know.

 

[bcb06gt]

Clarify something (timeline):
At 76K mods installed and first tune. No issues.
Some time between 76K and 83K stock pump replaced due to TSB.
At 83K second tune.
Shortly after that the car began experiencing hesitation and cut out at cruising speed.

My question: Based on your first post, the car ran fine for some time after the second tune? You did state "shortly after". Was anything mechanical done at the shop or immediately after?

 

[justin73]

What gets me is why would you use 2 different tuners. Was the first tuner not good enough?

 

[maurice05]

Clarify something (timeline):
At 76K mods installed and first tune. No issues.
Some time between 76K and 83K stock pump replaced due to TSB.
At 83K second tune.
Shortly after that the car began experiencing hesitation and cut out at cruising speed.

My question: Based on your first post, the car ran fine for some time after the second tune? You did state "shortly after". Was anything mechanical done at the shop or immediately after?

Nothing mechanical was done at the shop that performed the second tune.

The car began its hesitation issue a couple days later.

I "assumed" the problem was the tune, so I switched back to the previous tune that had not given me any problems. However, this did not cure the problem.

I changed out the fuel pump and filter some days after that.

What gets me is why would you use 2 different tuners. Was the first tuner not good enough?

Tuners are artists in my opinion... and some are better than others.
Each have their own style and tricks.

I just so happened to have the time and the money to invest in the second tune from a shop/tuner that I have dealt with for many years. This second shop is considerable distance from my home... so I dont get to visit it often. But when I do... I'm always impressed.

 

[lito]

Tuners are artists in my opinion... and some are better than others.
Each have their own style and tricks.

No, we are not. Good tuners are just regular people with very good technical skills.

Regarding your issue, impossible to say without proper pinpoint troubleshooting. This kind of thread usually end in endless waste of unneeded parts change because of this.

 

[maurice05]

No, we are not. Good tuners are just regular people with very good technical skills.

Regarding your issue, impossible to say without proper pinpoint troubleshooting. This kind of thread usually end in endless waste of unneeded parts change because of this.

I would say a tuner has a good understanding of automotive computer software and hardware, and how these work together with the mechanical systems in the car to make the car work better. A particular technical skill beyond the average wrench turner.

And yes I have already begun the changing of parts part.... with no success.

Hence a pause.... to gather information from sources like this forum.

But please forgive me for not driving my mustang to Venezuela for you to pinpoint its problem. I need to stay a bit more local.

I'm scheduled for this Friday at my local Ford dealership to have the airbag recall addressed, and the computer reflashed.

We shall see if this solves the issue.

 

[irishpwr46]

I would say a tuner has a good understanding of automotive computer software and hardware, and how these work together with the mechanical systems in the car to make the car work better. A particular technical skill beyond the average wrench turner.

And yes I have already begun the changing of parts part.... with no success.

Hence a pause.... to gather information from sources like this forum.

But please forgive me for not driving my mustang to Venezuela for you to pinpoint its problem. I need to stay a bit more local.

there wouldnt be a need to drive to venezuela. Manuel has tuned many of our cars quite successfully without ever even seeing them.