Gen2 F-150 5.0 into 2011 GT

Discussion in 'Hardcore Tech=*MOTOR SWAPS*' started by Roger Bell, May 23, 2020.

  1. Roger Bell

    Roger Bell Junior Member

    Age:
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    Hi everyone. Here is a swap project I have been working on. A summary of what I have done, and why, is below, and a question or two at the end.

    First, why? My son and I have a 2006 project car for which we are planning a full driveline, and interior swap from a not-yet-purchased write-off donor car. I bought a 2011 donor car from Copart with mechanical issues, but a running engine. Got the car up to Canada and the engine is wrecked. #7 piston exploded, wrecked hole #7, con-rod snapped, took out the crank bearings, destroyed the crank at #7, and all that wreckage spread through the engine and buggered up everything else, including the intake manifold. Looked at a rebuild but the machining alone was going to be ridiculously expensive. Shame on Copart for saying engine ran, and shame on me for blindly trusting that claim. But buyer beware, so it is what it is. So the plan changed. The donor car is actually quite nice, other than the engine, so we are fixing it up to sell, and then will source a different donor car. Mustang engines of this vintage are hard to come by in Canada, but F-150 coyotes are everywhere. Found a 2016 with next to no miles on it (4400).

    Second, what? Initial findings with the F-150 engine were that I needed to make the following modifications to make it work in the Mustang. I was looking for the path of least resistance on this, as at this stage, we aren't doing a performance build:
    1) transplant 2011 engine harness
    2) transplant 2011 coil packs (different physical connectors on the 2016)
    3) transplant 2011 VCT solenoids (different physical connectors on the 2016)
    4) transplant 2011 oil pan (for the low oil level sensor)
    5) did a CMCV/IMRC lock-out on the 2016 intake manifold
    6) modified the 2011 harness at the oil pressure sensor to add about 4" of length (further down the OFA on the 2016)
    7) purchased an adapter so I could transplant the 2011 oil pressure sensor (which is 1/4" NPT) to fit the 2016 OFA (metric), due to different connector and pin-out on the 2016
    8) purchased an oil filter relocation kit (Derale 15725) due to lack of clearance between the F-150 OFA and the sway bar
    9) modified the 2016 valve covers to accept the 2011 appearance covers (just because)

    I think that's everything. I chose to install a new clutch and slave because I had everything apart. I will update if I remember any other changes that matter. All other sensors appear compatible, as are the injectors. I am just waiting for the oil filter relocation kit to arrive, and then will be ready to fire it up.

    My question is about the VCT solenoids and the different cam lift and dwell on the 2016 cams. I haven't found any info about whether or not the 2011 ECU will be happy with the different cam specs? Basically, is it smart enough to notice the difference and will I need to flash it somehow? I welcome any other questions or suggestions, of course. Please bear in mind that this is a minimal intervention attempt. The car is to be a nice cruiser, but doesn't need to win races. My research indicates that the different torque specs on the gen2 F-150 engine will make it a competent runner in the mustang as it is.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Juice

    Juice forum member

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    You must change the internal timing components of the Gen 2 engine to run it with a gen 1 pcm. At minimum, you will get a check engine light, or worse. May not even start. You cannot fix this with a tune. At that point, might as well put the mustang cams in it. Sorry, the path of least reaistance is not what you wanted to hear.
     
  3. Juice

    Juice forum member

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    Tbe second issue you may run into with, lets call it a cam swap, if the pcm is not happy with rhe "new cams", it will limit power at the worst possible time. These coyote PCMs are very sensitive to changes in calculated vs expected torque, and the fly-by-wire sadety features kick in. Remember the unintended acceleration issues with toyota? Lots of built in safeties.
     
  4. Dino Dino Bambino

    Dino Dino Bambino I have a red car

    Age:
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    At the very least swap the intake cams from the Mustang engine into the F150. You might also need the Mustang oil pan in which case you can swap the windage tray as well.
     
  5. shard phoenix

    shard phoenix Junior Member

    49
    1
    15 f150 changed firing order via the cams, crankshaft is the same. You will need to swap both intake and exhaust cams. Easy button to avoid a lot of tuning is use gen 1 intake cams/timing components and intake manifold. That should be doable since you have the parts already.
     
  6. Roger Bell

    Roger Bell Junior Member

    Age:
    49
    6
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    Thank you very much for the response! I attempted to start the engine last night, and encountered what sure sounds like a firing order issue. It is strange that in my research, I did not find anything about this. After seeing your response, and experiencing a disappointing engine start attempt last night, I did more searching and found only one mention of this on a Factory Five community forum. Increasing my frustration is the fact that I own a 2016 F-150 and a 2014 Mustang. Dug out the owner's manuals this morning, and there it is in black and white. RTFM, folks...

    I am now starting a very, very careful verification of what I am going to have to do in order to make this work. Again, path of least resistance is preferred. I am going through and comparing individual part numbers, but would appreciate your thoughts. You are correct that I have the 2011 engine still (need to ship it away for a core refund, and happy I haven't done so as of yet) but it experienced a rather ugly engine failure. The head journals and cams are scrubbed from the filings and debris that spread throughout the engine. The intake manifold is also badly debris-contaminated. The shop manual indicates that it cannot be reliably cleaned and must be replaced, which is why I did the IMRC lockout on, and planned to use the 2016 manifold. I am going to dismantle the old engine, again, to more closely inspect the cams, to see if they can be salvaged. So here are my questions:

    1) 'timing components' - do you mean the entirety of the valve-train, including cams, vct hardware, secondary, and primary chains? I get the cams, and already swapped in the VCT solenoids, but really don't want to have to swap in everything if I can avoid it. The old engine has 150K miles on it. The new engine has 4000.
    2) you suggest gen1 cams. If I have to buy new cams, would using gen2 mustang cams not work with the 2011 ecu? I get that lift and duration are different, but haven't found any tech info that indicates this is a problem, other than a few opinions. Having to buy new cams, I would favour the gen2, so long as they don't lead to more problems.

    Thanks again for your response. It has been extremely helpful so far.
     
  7. Juice

    Juice forum member

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    The answer is fairly simple. You must swap the tone rings on the cams, as that is what the pcm needs to correctly determine cam positions. I would put in the gen 1 phasers, as those may also be different. These are all behind the timing cover.

    I cannot give you a definite answer on the cams. The pcm may or may not throw a check engine light with gen 2 cams. So, would you want to chance this? I would say stick with ALL gen 1 mustang components. Since the firing order is different, you MUST swap all 4 cams.

    It may be possible to run the truck cams with the gen 1 phasers and tone rings, but it will require tuning, a custom tune that changes the firing order and any other parameters. I would not want truck cams in a mustang. Top end power will suffer.

    Cliff notes: swap cam tone rings, phasers, and cams to gen1 mustang parts. And you wont have any issues to deal with later.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
  8. Roger Bell

    Roger Bell Junior Member

    Age:
    49
    6
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    Thanks again. Yes, the only clear answer is to swap out to gen1 timing components from end to end. It's going to take a fair while. Will post an update once I come out the other side of this.
     
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