Harness bar and 4 point belts on a street car?

[Champale]

Like many of you, I am frustrated by the whole Takata airbag situation and with no replacement airbags being made available in the near future, I am considering a new non-airbag Sparco or similar steering wheel and a Corbeau harness bar and 4 point seatbelts. My car is a street-driven Boss 302 LS that is purely for fun and not a daily driver so I am not super concerned with the 4 point belts being a bit of a hassle to get into and out of.

I would appreciate hearing people's thoughts or experiences with this setup, good or bad. Thank you.

John

 

[rick@CJPonyParts]

I don't think that's a good replacement for an air bag. A harness bar and a 4 point belt is not a good situation to be in during a rollover. You do not want to be held in an upright position when the roof may collapse.

 

[Marble]

They also may not DOT legal in your state. Meaning they may not be able to replace your standard seatbelt in your car.

 

[Mach2burnout]

Only certain 4-5-6 point harness are DOT legal. Be sure to get the right ones. And cage the car, at least a 4 point roll bar if you intend for this to be primary protection on the street. As others said rollover without head protection is no where to be.
I do auto x at this time with 5 point and harness bar(no RB) but am in the process of correcting that.


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[Champale]

Ok that you for the feedback so far, guys.

Question: how does a steering wheel airbag protect you in a rollover? I would only be disabling that one airbag, not the side curtain ones. I cannot see what difference the steering wheel airbag would make in a rollover.

Also, I am not understanding how being held by a 4 point belt in a rollover is much different than being held in place by the normal seatbelt.

And I am not opposed to going with a MM or Watson racing cage - just don't know how necessary it is for my needs.

Please educate me, guys!

 

[rick@CJPonyParts]

We bring up rollovers because you are talking about a 4 point harness, not necessarily because you are talking about removing the air bag. A 4 point harness holds you in the upright position. A factory 3 point allows you to lean over towards the center.

 

[Champale]

Ok got it - that makes sense. Thank you!

 

[Sky Render]

4-points don't protect against submarining (going under the belt in an impact). Schroth makes 4-point harnesses that are anti-submarining, however.

As someone who has 4-points installed in their Mustang, I can tell you that you'll drive approximately 3 miles on the street before you're sick of them, because they are so constraining.

Personally, I think you're blowing this whole airbag thing out of proportion. Stop making mountains out of molehills.

 

[TGR96]

I have a Corbeau harness bar and a nice set of Schroth five pint harnesses that I have had in my garage for months. I want to install them so bad for autoX and track days, but the whole rollover thing scares me (car does not have a roll bar and probably won't any time in the near future).

 

[Champale]

Haha Sky Render thank you for your 'advice'. Please go ahead and make sure you tell that to the families of the people who have been killed or injured by the airbags.

Just so you know, I ride sport bikes and have for over 20 years. I wear all of the proper gear - helmet, gloves, leathers, back protectors, etc. I have been run off the road by other drivers and broken my shoulder, I have split a deer in half that ran out from the side of the road (thankfully it didnt bend my forks and i didn't crash), and had a number of other close calls. So risk isn't a huge concern of mine. It is the bizarre set of circumstances that we Mustang owners are in where there is a safety recall that cannot currently be fulfilled that has me so frustrated. I simply asked a question about experiences with harnesses to get some feedback so I appreciate what you told me about how annoying the harnesses can be.

John

 

[Mach2burnout]

I have a Corbeau harness bar and a nice set of Schroth five pint harnesses that I have had in my garage for months. I want to install them so bad for autoX and track days, but the whole rollover thing scares me (car does not have a roll bar and probably won't any time in the near future).

For the speeds that you obtain while auto xing the chances of rollover are very slim, especially in stock to lightly modified cars. Not impossible, though. To add to that, the structure of the car should hold up pretty well to prevent serious injury even if you did roll while auto xing. I have had my 5 point harness and bar for about 3 yrs. and love it for auto x. But track days where the speeds are much higher and chances of rollover are increased, I have to say a roll bar or cage is a good idea.


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[Sky Render]

If you want to eliminate your airbag because of the recall, the "proper" way to do so would be to eliminate all airbags, install a cage, and then install 5- or 6-point harnesses. Use of a harness without a cage, as others have said, is unsafe in the event of a rollover. That's why I only use my 4-points for autocross; when you're dodging cones in a parking lot, you don't have to worry much about getting in a wreck.

I maintain that going through with all this will not only be uncomfortable but also rather silly to make your car essentially unstreetable because of a possible airbag failure that, while tragic, is still a very infinitesimal probability.

 

[Boone]

First off, it's your car, and you can bend whichever rules you can get away with. No cats... F the tree huggers! No deer whistle... F PETA! No airbags... F Ralph Nader! No speed limit... well, that wouldn't be so bad. You're obviously gathering opinions to educate yourself, so good for you.

Here's how I addressed your situation:
I have a four point MM roll bar with a removable harness bar and removable door bars. I also have the Schroth ASM four point harness and the OEM three point belts in my car. Schroth offers a push button latch that is DOT legal (at least in NC, though I chose the rotating latch). The seat belts share a mounting point so the short straps tuck in beside each seat. The shoulder belts stay attached to the harness bar when removed from the vehicle.

If you go with a setup like this, you can switch back and forth quickly and easily, have your rollover protection while looking really cool, and protect yourself much better than most while on the track. I have kept all my airbags, including the side airbags, operable. I figure if I'm strapped in tight in my drivers space, the airbags can just do their thing around me.

These are the decisions I made, and I believe I had all the pertinent information when I made them. If I change my mind, I'll change the car. I'm now considering aftermarket seats, which will necessitate some phantom side airbag modules, but that's a bridge for another day.

 

[Sky Render]

I use the Schroth quick-fit harness, too. Very nice product!

Technically, they meet DOT standards, but I'm not so sure that means they are explicitly legal. Personally, I think if a cop pulls you over for "no belts" and sees you strapped in with 4-points, he's going to write you a ticket for no seatbelts, anyway, because why not?

 

[Champale]

Boone - thank you for that information. I like what you have done and it might be something for me to consider.

And yes - F PETA and Ralph Nader! Too funny.

 

[TGR96]

For the speeds that you obtain while auto xing the chances of rollover are very slim, especially in stock to lightly modified cars. Not impossible, though. To add to that, the structure of the car should hold up pretty well to prevent serious injury even if you did roll while auto xing. I have had my 5 point harness and bar for about 3 yrs. and love it for auto x. But track days where the speeds are much higher and chances of rollover are increased, I have to say a roll bar or cage is a good idea.


Sent from iPhone

Yes, I agree 100%. AutoX, very little chance of a rollover, it's the track days the cause me a little concern. I will probably bolt the bar and harnesses in for this seasons autox, but for any track days, I'll probably just use the 3 point factory belts. My back seat never gets used anyway! Lol

 

[Mach2burnout]

If you ever put those harnesses on, you'll never want to go fast again without them. JMO.


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