Not GT vs. GT. S197 GT vs. Terminator, yes. And I'm not suggesting the SN95 is the better car. Just smaller and hence lighter. Lighter opens the door to being faster, better handling, and hopefully being cheaper to buy with the current engine. But I don't think Ford is interested in any of that.
I'd like to see a smaller and lighter Mustang
- Thread starter 95CobraR
- Start date
Not GT vs. GT. S197 GT vs. Terminator, yes. And I'm not suggesting the SN95 is the better car. Just smaller and hence lighter. Lighter opens the door to being faster, better handling, and hopefully being cheaper to buy with the current engine. But I don't think Ford is interested in any of that.
OX1
forum member
Not that hard to get close. I got 14 Gt with auto as only option.
Ditched back seat (useless), made "covers" out of fabric and cardboard.
Added solid sway bars, but made up for it with lighter battery and
lightweight rad support.
Got Bullit knockoffs (very light for their size), 18 X 9/10 and
295 NT05's rear with 255 NT555's front.
Remove spare/jack
3515 on scale @ ATCO (before adding TVS)
3610 after blower, which I still think is pretty good
The whole schema for trucks right now is different than it used to be. An F150 has not been a half ton truck for a long time. The colarado/canyon is closer to a half ton than an F150, this is why the ranger is coming back.
People buy trucks for much different reasons now than they used to. Much like the pony car segment.
Americans have been buying a Mustang expecting to receive an Audi for years now. The S550 is Fords response to this customer expectation. They also want to sell the car in Europe where it will damn well be compared to Audi and BMW.
I know that sounds wack, but truth be told; us, our forum, our hangout buddies, and our track buddies all live in an echo chamber. The loudmouths in the forums and on facebook often don't reflect whats happening at the point of sale.
Also I have been saying since day 1 of the S550 that they should have made a Lincoln version and put all the sound deadening and luxo weight stuff in that. They could even put the EB 3.5 in it to begin warming up buyers to the eventual demise of the middle class V8. People looking at a Lincoln are not married to the V8 like Mustang buyers are.
People buy trucks for much different reasons now than they used to. Much like the pony car segment.
Americans have been buying a Mustang expecting to receive an Audi for years now. The S550 is Fords response to this customer expectation. They also want to sell the car in Europe where it will damn well be compared to Audi and BMW.
I know that sounds wack, but truth be told; us, our forum, our hangout buddies, and our track buddies all live in an echo chamber. The loudmouths in the forums and on facebook often don't reflect whats happening at the point of sale.
Also I have been saying since day 1 of the S550 that they should have made a Lincoln version and put all the sound deadening and luxo weight stuff in that. They could even put the EB 3.5 in it to begin warming up buyers to the eventual demise of the middle class V8. People looking at a Lincoln are not married to the V8 like Mustang buyers are.
Trucks may be bigger but curb weights on the newer F150's are not all that bad. Ford claims they're in the 4600-4800 lb range depending on what body configuration you have.
Its making it safe and stuff for NVH that makes it heavy.
10 years ago I had a base model 2dr manual everything ecotec powered chevy cavalier for a project car. it weighed about 2400lb also. It was fun, and it had scoot to it, and people not believing what they saw were always trying to find the turbo or nitrous on it. It was the angriest weed wacker in a metal trash can you ever heard. But its just not what people are buying in mass these days.
10 years ago I had a base model 2dr manual everything ecotec powered chevy cavalier for a project car. it weighed about 2400lb also. It was fun, and it had scoot to it, and people not believing what they saw were always trying to find the turbo or nitrous on it. It was the angriest weed wacker in a metal trash can you ever heard. But its just not what people are buying in mass these days.
As a tall driver I NEED the larger Mustang. I couldn't fit in any of them between 1974-2004. The car could be smaller and still fit big drivers but that is RARELY the case. I'd hate to have to switch to a Porsche based on "fit" alone - (but I would)!
Just saw on my local news, Ford is going to stop making sedans and only sell the Mustang, Focus electric, SUV's and Trucks plus commercial vehicles. In the near future
sort of - Ford Europe will still produce sedans and hatchbacks. If there's a change in the current US market tastes there'll be a ready supply of compacts and sub-compacts without too much trouble.
You could have a Mustang the same size as a 2 series BMW which would be interesting.
This is true ^^^ the S550 GT was retailing a good 20k below the BMW M4 over here (ditto RS5) and people were still bitching that it didn't have the same "quality feel" that those cars supposedly have.
I do enjoy a smaller mustang, but in long trips I don't feel there practical. I like my 03 new edge mustang GT. Only 260 horsepower but it's definitely lighter than my 13 S197. I feel with few minor things I have done to it, it takes on ramps harder than my S197. But being smaller is fun around town but going on a longer trip you can't beat the comfort of a larger S197, there is just more storage for a trip that even a modern new edge sized mustang couldn't compete with. At longest they don't grow passed size of S197/ S550 think there good. Get to the size of a challenger and that is just too much.
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06 T-RED S/C GT
forum member
After owning 4 Fox body Mustangs, it took quite a while before finally getting used to the size of the S197, but when compared to the Challenger and 5th generation Camaro, the S197 and S550 Mustang IMO are dwarfs when you compare them side by side lol. That being said, I hope to God they never grow to the size of the Challenger 
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
How much of this is perception rather than absolute? At any given level of modification, you'll be pushing the SN95 harder relative to its limits than will be the case with the S197. A car that's more composed when driven hard won't feel like you're running it as hard, even when you're actually running it harder. A S197 with only a little done to it (and still on true street tires) might not start to feel like it's working very hard at all until you're up past 0.8g laterally.
I could enjoy a slightly smaller Mustang - the S197's 107" wheelbase is getting really close to the maximum wheelbase I'd want in any car (and not all that far from "deal-breaker length"). The trick would be in figuring out how to make the wheelbase shorter without making the car more front-heavy.
Norm
I thought a longer wheel base was better for high speed stability ? IMO, the 05-18 stangs are the perfect size. The back seats are semi useless. Make the car much shorter, and you may as well not have back seats, and then perhaps make for more front leg room..and a bigger trunk. The challenger is huge, but at least the back seats are usable. Ditto with the charger..esp if you are a cop. Once in a while I will stuff one individual into rear seat on pass side. But I'm not running a free taxi service either.... buy your own car.
06 T-RED S/C GT
forum member
The back seats were always considered as semi-useless, from the 1st generation 65 models, up to the full size 71-73 cars. As the length of the car wasn't so much a factor, but rather from the lack of headroom due to the Mustang's fastback roofline. For those who recall the notchback models prior to the SN-95 generation, had much more headroom that could comfortably fit 2 adult sized people in the back seat with no problem. However with those who have fastbacks and SN-95 thru current models are lucky enough to fit up to 2 mid-sized teenagers in the back seat with just enough headroom clearance lol. As for the Challenger, it's back seats are usable thanks to providing more headroom from having a taller roofline in addition to being the size of a land yacht 
RocketcarX
95% of my weight is fuel
There is not world where the SN95 car handles on par, much less better than a S197 car.
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
Norm Peterson
corner barstool sitter
High speed stability is the enemy of things like nimbleness and turn-in response. You can still put up good numbers, but the word 'deliberate' comes to mind rather than 'lively' (might be a lateral-g/sec or deg/sec of yaw thing). Personally, I'd prefer something in the 100" - 101" range for a true dual-purpose DD/track or autocross 2 + 2 car assuming that the weight distribution could be maintained at no more front-heavy than where it is now.
I suspect wheelbase was partly responsible for the early 5th gen Camaro (at 112.3" WB) understeering a bit more than the S197 - and with slalom speeds clearly off the Mustang's pace. This despite the Camaro being a point or two closer to 50/50 weight distribution than the Mustang.
Porsche 911-series cars are still only 96.5" between the axles, and that's in cars with weight distribution percentages that you wouldn't even think of starting with if handling was primarily about stability.
It's a 2 + 2, where the "+ 2" are expected to be for occasional-use only. It's a mistake to plan for a 2 + 2 car's "+ 2" seating to be much more than a place for the + 2's to sit that meets legal requirements (i.e. has seat belts).
Norm
That's very fair! It is probably just perception, as the SN95 has never been to a track and just has OEM bullitt springs with KYB replacement shocks and struts. As my 2013 GT has boss 302 springs and steeda shocks and struts.
With the impending demise of all of Ford's car chassis (as we know them), I wonder how long Ford will see fit to develop a totally stand alone Mustang chassis? Or will they use an existing chassis from overseas as the under pinnings with the body/drivetrain styled here? With V8's only existing in trucks and the Mustang and Ford's focus on the Ecoboost product, I wonder if the V8 will be around in a couple Mustang generations from now. I could see the Mustang GT losing the V8 in favor of a turbo 3.5 or 3.0 with the 10 speed auto and the V8 car becoming the halo car with the big premium up charge.
Well they have a new RWD/AWD platform coming for the 2019 Lincoln Aviator which will most likely also get used for the next-gen Explorer, and who knows how many other models ... I wouldn't be completely shocked to see it also get used for a future Mustang.
Can you say AWD Mustang? I wouldn't be upset to see the option come to market, it would only broaden the car's appeal in the snow states.
Can you say AWD Mustang? I wouldn't be upset to see the option come to market, it would only broaden the car's appeal in the snow states.
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