IS the Coyote engine rebuildable or does the block need to be replaced?

Juice

forum member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Posts
4,622
Reaction score
1,904
Pure speculation here. The only product Im aware that actually reads your tune and saves it is HP tuners. SCT does not read the pcm, they provide you with the stock file based on your processor code.
Currently, if you have all monitors on, and no faults, it is a pass. The issue here is, yes, this can be 'cheated'. This is why I think checking for the OS ID is coming to OBD scanning. I do not know if HP tuners renames the OS, SCT does rename it.
No idea about the workings of Syked, PCM flash, or any other product out there.
Possible solution would be software to edit Ford .vbf file (oem tune file) and flash with IDS. I have not seen anything like that out there.
PCM flash is pretty cheap but you have to pay to have your strategy mapped. It ends up costing the same as HPT, and SCT. (~$750). Syked was the best priced solution, but Kevin could not make it work on mine. Not that Ive researched this. lol
The only realsolution I see is having a second pcm and just swapping it as needed.
 

Robert302

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2021
Posts
46
Reaction score
6
Pure speculation here. The only product Im aware that actually reads your tune and saves it is HP tuners. SCT does not read the pcm, they provide you with the stock file based on your processor code.
Currently, if you have all monitors on, and no faults, it is a pass. The issue here is, yes, this can be 'cheated'. This is why I think checking for the OS ID is coming to OBD scanning. I do not know if HP tuners renames the OS, SCT does rename it.
No idea about the workings of Syked, PCM flash, or any other product out there.
Possible solution would be software to edit Ford .vbf file (oem tune file) and flash with IDS. I have not seen anything like that out there.
PCM flash is pretty cheap but you have to pay to have your strategy mapped. It ends up costing the same as HPT, and SCT. (~$750). Syked was the best priced solution, but Kevin could not make it work on mine. Not that Ive researched this. lol
The only realsolution I see is having a second pcm and just swapping it as needed.
I am considering getting a 2nd pcm and just tuning that one
 

OX1

forum member
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Posts
528
Reaction score
185
Location
Jackson, NJ
Pure speculation here. The only product Im aware that actually reads your tune and saves it is HP tuners. SCT does not read the pcm, they provide you with the stock file based on your processor code.
Currently, if you have all monitors on, and no faults, it is a pass. The issue here is, yes, this can be 'cheated'. This is why I think checking for the OS ID is coming to OBD scanning. I do not know if HP tuners renames the OS, SCT does rename it.
No idea about the workings of Syked, PCM flash, or any other product out there.
Possible solution would be software to edit Ford .vbf file (oem tune file) and flash with IDS. I have not seen anything like that out there.
PCM flash is pretty cheap but you have to pay to have your strategy mapped. It ends up costing the same as HPT, and SCT. (~$750). Syked was the best priced solution, but Kevin could not make it work on mine. Not that Ive researched this. lol
The only realsolution I see is having a second pcm and just swapping it as needed.

From what I understand, it is not "renaming" the file, it is a checksum derived from the tuning parameters themselves (hence if HP changes tune, it changes checksum by default).

I looked into the company that sells the smog equipment that can check for that specific checksum (and cross reference to what it should be based on car VIN). Many states besides Ca have bought that equipment. NJ was not one of them (yet), when article was written (late 2019 IIRC).

That doesn't stop states from manually looking at that checksum well after inspection, especially on vehicles like our Stangs that have a high probability for non factory (or CARB approved) tunes. So my buddy might be safe, but I might get screwed months after the fact. I don't think NJ has ref's like Ca. I'm not even sure who I would go to in NJ to get smogged, if say I got the Roush tune even, but that checksum was not in their database and they failed me anyway (maybe a Roush Ford dealer).

I'm inclined to just go through with VMP tune in Aug/Sep (this year) and see what happens. They don't do visual in NJ, at least never have for me before (I have heard rumors they have a camera under vehicle, maybe they do a cursory check for cats??). But I've read in Ca., with a non "approved" tune, the newer smog computer won't even communicate with an ECM that has an aftermarket tune.

It's hard to know what is true and what is folklore, especially since things seem to be changing quicker than in the past (and the whole EPA crackdown crap).
 

Juice

forum member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Posts
4,622
Reaction score
1,904
From what I understand, it is not "renaming" the file, it is a checksum derived from the tuning parameters themselves (hence if HP changes tune, it changes checksum by default).

I looked into the company that sells the smog equipment that can check for that specific checksum (and cross reference to what it should be based on car VIN). Many states besides Ca have bought that equipment. NJ was not one of them (yet), when article was written (late 2019 IIRC).

That doesn't stop states from manually looking at that checksum well after inspection, especially on vehicles like our Stangs that have a high probability for non factory (or CARB approved) tunes. So my buddy might be safe, but I might get screwed months after the fact. I don't think NJ has ref's like Ca. I'm not even sure who I would go to in NJ to get smogged, if say I got the Roush tune even, but that checksum was not in their database and they failed me anyway (maybe a Roush Ford dealer).

I'm inclined to just go through with VMP tune in Aug/Sep (this year) and see what happens. They don't do visual in NJ, at least never have for me before (I have heard rumors they have a camera under vehicle, maybe they do a cursory check for cats??). But I've read in Ca., with a non "approved" tune, the newer smog computer won't even communicate with an ECM that has an aftermarket tune.

It's hard to know what is true and what is folklore, especially since things seem to be changing quicker than in the past (and the whole EPA crackdown crap).
And the first thing in a tune is turning off the p0605 code. ;) Go figure.
I cruise the HP tumers forum for exucational purposes. They clearly talk about renamed OS, like an sct tune for example, HPT wont read. And the solution is a trouble ticket away.
 

OX1

forum member
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Posts
528
Reaction score
185
Location
Jackson, NJ
I am considering getting a 2nd pcm and just tuning that one

Will the second PCM be able to be just swapped back and forth. No issue with communication with IPC especially, how about PATS?? What about mileage?
 

Juice

forum member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Posts
4,622
Reaction score
1,904
Will the second PCM be able to be just swapped back and forth. No issue with communication with IPC especially, how about PATS?? What about mileage?
A pats i itialization will need to be done each time you swap pcm. (Forscan), but no key programming needed. (keys are not erased with the initialization)
 

LarryJM

Resident Fuktard
Joined
Jul 15, 2018
Posts
1,008
Reaction score
151
This thread got me to think. Lots of new Coyote bare blocks around. Lowest seems to be a Gen 3 spray bore for $900 free shipping which is the latest out of Canada to something like $3500 for a 5.2. The Gen 3 spray bore is ready for assembly and is listed for all coyote engines back to 2011. Any thoughts?????
 
Last edited:

Juice

forum member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Posts
4,622
Reaction score
1,904
My thoughts: as much as I enjoy building engines/transmissions. Building will ALWAYS cost more in the end. I will go with a running used or new crate engine before I resort to building.
 

LarryJM

Resident Fuktard
Joined
Jul 15, 2018
Posts
1,008
Reaction score
151
My thoughts: as much as I enjoy building engines/transmissions. Building will ALWAYS cost more in the end. I will go with a running used or new crate engine before I resort to building.

In watching the Youtube tear down series, I am impressed with the Coyote Engine that has what looks like twice the parts and that a rod could completely explode into dust including the cap making a mess out of everything inside.
 

eighty6gt

forum member
Joined
May 9, 2011
Posts
4,292
Reaction score
403
This thread got me to think. Lots of new Coyote bare blocks around. Lowest seems to be a Gen 3 spray bore for $900 free shipping which is the latest out of Canada to something like $3500 for a 5.2. The Gen 3 spray bore is ready for assembly and is listed for all coyote engines back to 2011. Any thoughts?????

Do the math on selling everything and grabbing a ZL1 or 911 C2?
 

eighty6gt

forum member
Joined
May 9, 2011
Posts
4,292
Reaction score
403
20k miles a year? I'd just get a daily to avoid all the wear on the fun car...

I don't get this, should do 10 years easy. By then all this ice thing will be over with or the owner will be bored and will have traded up to a C7.
 

LarryJM

Resident Fuktard
Joined
Jul 15, 2018
Posts
1,008
Reaction score
151
Do the math on selling everything and grabbing a ZL1 or 911 C2?
Salesman at Jerrys says they got in a new dark green ZL-1. The deal might be $75,000 minus trade of $25,000 for $50,000. Still a lot of money for a garage queen.
 

Robert302

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2021
Posts
46
Reaction score
6
I don't get this, should do 10 years easy. By then all this ice thing will be over with or the owner will be bored and will have traded up to a C7.
For me it's hard to justify tearing apart a good engine to swap it with something better. I have restored a truck and what I like is that when you get into replacing engines and trans you get to decide what you want. What do you want it to do, what parts do you want. I have really thought about buying a bad ass ZL1, or GT500 and the reality is I can save up enough money, keep my credit good and get one but what does that prove. Anyone can write a check and make payments if they want to bad enough. Anyone who applies themselves can save up for a ZL1 or GT500. Considering they don't see many miles and the value drops like crazy I would get a used one. For my GT I feel it hasn't really depreciated, It is worth maybee half what I bought for but I drove it for 8 years so it didn't depreciate. I used it and it's worth what use is left in it. When you don't use it, it depreciates.
 

LarryJM

Resident Fuktard
Joined
Jul 15, 2018
Posts
1,008
Reaction score
151
For me it's hard to justify tearing apart a good engine to swap it with something better. I have restored a truck and what I like is that when you get into replacing engines and trans you get to decide what you want. What do you want it to do, what parts do you want. I have really thought about buying a bad ass ZL1, or GT500 and the reality is I can save up enough money, keep my credit good and get one but what does that prove. Anyone can write a check and make payments if they want to bad enough. Anyone who applies themselves can save up for a ZL1 or GT500. Considering they don't see many miles and the value drops like crazy I would get a used one. For my GT I feel it hasn't really depreciated, It is worth maybee half what I bought for but I drove it for 8 years so it didn't depreciate. I used it and it's worth what use is left in it. When you don't use it, it depreciates.

The new Dark Green ZR-1 is an automatic. I drove an automatic and a 6 speed Zl-1. The automatic is almost impossible to control in any kind of traffic. With the 6 speed, you can always leave it in 3rd and mash it without doing a tail spin. No way would Ford give me a test drive in a new GT-500 or even a 350. The Hellcat people said a test drive only with the 500hp black key which is the same as a 392/475 Scat Pack. Koons had 50 of them for $38500 take your choice. They had a hand full of Hellcats.
 

JJ427R

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Posts
3,305
Reaction score
1,205
The new Dark Green ZR-1 is an automatic. I drove an automatic and a 6 speed Zl-1. The automatic is almost impossible to control in any kind of traffic. With the 6 speed, you can always leave it in 3rd and mash it without doing a tail spin. No way would Ford give me a test drive in a new GT-500 or even a 350. The Hellcat people said a test drive only with the 500hp black key which is the same as a 392/475 Scat Pack. Koons had 50 of them for $38500 take your choice. They had a hand full of Hellcats.
I'd still look at a Roush Stage 3 before I'd buy a GT500 or ZL1. I've seen Stage 3's for close to $10k under sticker price, If you know how to deal you can probably do better yet. You won't find a GT500 close to that price, and a Mach 1 is almost as much with a couple hundred less hp! I'd buy a Stage 2 Roush over the Mach 1. I looked at a 750hp Stage 3 for $73k. At least $25k more for the cheapest GT500 near me. Mach 1's near me are $5-10k over sticker. A Corvette 3LZ by me is $30k over sticker!
.
 

Juice

forum member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Posts
4,622
Reaction score
1,904
400hp at the wheels is plenty. Why dick around with 600~ish? Give me 1000 unusable hp at that point, if I was to build one.
 

Pentalab

forum member
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Posts
5,211
Reaction score
1,093
F
400hp at the wheels is plenty. Why dick around with 600~ish? Give me 1000 unusable hp at that point, if I was to build one.
For a DD street car, what rear tires are folks using, for a 500-700 rwhp car ? My new 305-35-19 MPSS rears barely stick in 2nd gear on the street. That's with a 2010 auto and 390 rwhp. Aside from the strip, what's the practical upper limit rwhp for a dd / street car ?
 

Latest posts

Support us!

Support Us - Become A Supporting Member Today!

Click Here For Details

Sponsor Links

Banner image
Back
Top