Kenny Brown GT-4 "Super Grip" Front Lower Control Arm Module

[MTNMAN]

Just got these in. They're going on a Boss 302. Can't wait to see how they work. Also going with the GT-4 Roll-Center Relocation Kit.

 

[BMR Tech]

Are you going to be using these with the stock front K-Member?

I am curious as to why he chose to run poly on both mounting points.

 

[MTNMAN]

Stock K member. The Kenny Brown arms only come one way. The KBP K frame isn't availbable right now.

 

[BMR Tech]

I see.

Well good luck and keep the thread updated. Hopefully that front bushing isn't too bound up after install.

 

[MTNMAN]

We'll see. These are the same arms Performance Autosport is using on the RTR American Iron race car.
http://www.performanceautosport.com/2012/03/27/round-2-vir-march-madness/
Haven't gotten to use them yet, so looking forward trying them out.

 

[MTNMAN]

Griggs Racing uses poly at both mounting points as well when using the stock arms.

 

[NEMustang]

Kenny claims all kinds of geometery improvements. Can anyone explain what is different other than a tall ball joint? Also, I currently run these BMR versions...Kenny Browns' are $749 vs BMRs $459. I'm sure they are well engineered..just wondering what you get for $300 more.

Kenny claims:
Kenny’s exclusive AGS 4.0 Geometry raises front Roll Center and improves Roll Center Migration, Caster, Camber Gain and Anti-Dive – all in one complete, easy-to-install package

Link to BMR control arms:
http://www.bmrsuspension.com/siteart/products/AA023_large.jpg
http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&productid=975

 

[JAJ]

Kenny claims all kinds of geometery improvements. Can anyone explain what is different other than a tall ball joint? Also, I currently run these BMR versions...Kenny Browns' are $749 vs BMRs $459. I'm sure they are well engineered..just wondering what you get for $300 more.

Kenny claims:
Kenny’s exclusive AGS 4.0 Geometry raises front Roll Center and improves Roll Center Migration, Caster, Camber Gain and Anti-Dive – all in one complete, easy-to-install package

Link to BMR control arms:
http://www.bmrsuspension.com/siteart/products/AA023_large.jpg
http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&productid=975

It goes like this:

"raises front Roll Center and improves Roll Center Migration, Camber Gain" are a result of the long-stem ball joint that lowers the outer end of the control arm at static position. They're all more or less different ways of saying the same thing.

"Caster, and Anti-Dive" are a result of locating the two mounting pivots so that the ball joint is relocated further forward in the wheelwell.

 

[NEMustang]

It goes like this:

"raises front Roll Center and improves Roll Center Migration, Camber Gain" are a result of the long-stem ball joint that lowers the outer end of the control arm at static position. They're all more or less different ways of saying the same thing.

"Caster, and Anti-Dive" are a result of locating the two mounting pivots so that the ball joint is relocated further forward in the wheelwell.

Agree with #1...same as my BMR with tall ball joint or a Steeda X5.

On Caster and Anti-dive...the control arms mount in the stock location. These can be used with the stock k-member. Has he designed the control arm so that the ball joint mount is further forward giving more caster and anti-dive? Do we need more caster in these cars?

 

[MTNMAN]

From http://www.kennybrown.com/

NEW! GT-4 “Super-Grip” Front Lower Control Arm Module
NOT Just a Lower Control Arm - A Super-Grip Control Arm Module! Kenny has engineered his renowned AGS 4.0 (Advanced Geometry Suspension) front suspension geometry into a single module – No K-member required

• The strongest front lower control arm for 2005-2012 Mustangs and GT500’s available
• 3-D CAD designed with FEA analysis
• Street friendly and track proven
• Incredible braking and turn-in performance - a huge boost in driver confidence
• Kenny’s exclusive AGS 4.0 Geometry raises front Roll Center and improves Roll
• Center Migration, Caster, Camber Gain and Anti-Dive – all in one complete, easy-to-install package
• Critical part of Kenny Brown’s awesome GT-4 Suspension System
• Performance or track springs required

The Kenny Brown GT4 "Super Grip" Front Lower Control Arm Module completely transforms the handling and driving dynamics of your S197 Mustang or Shelby GT500. Kenny Brown has engineered in all of his superb AGS geometry into the Control Arm Module so there is no need to add a K-member (except for weight reduction). A critical element in Kenny's GT-4 AGS 4.0 Front Suspension System, the computer designed and race proven "Super Grip" Front Lower Control Arms give you race-inspired precision and performance in an easy-to-install, street friendly package.
KB-49721 Fits 2005 -2009 Mustang and GT500. Patent Pending
KB-49731 Fits 2010-2012 Mustang and GT500 (uses larger ball joint). Patent Pending

I'm looking forward to getting to try them out.

 

[BMR Tech]

I am sure they work decently.

I noticed the same exact "Ingalls" tall ball joint in them, as our previous arms utilized.

We now use a ball-joint that we designed in house, standard on all of our arms. NEMustang had an issue with our previous ball-joints, so we went through a new supplier and designed our own. I would put our new ball-joints against ANY out there, and they are only $59.95/each if bought separately.

As for their geometry change, I saw it first hand.

They change the angle on the rear most mounting point.....causing the arm to "angle downward" towards the front of the car.

When I had this same arm in my hands a few weeks back, I popped it in a stock K-Member, as well as our K-Member. All I will say is, I was not very impressed with how that arm is expected to be positioned. If it is suppose to bind the front bushing (not mounted squarely)...then I apologize to everyone for my ignorance.

The good news is, poly is easy and cheap to replace! We didn't have any luck with poly on the rear mounting point, as you can see; we use delrin.

Since we changed to Delrin in late 2006, we haven't had a single bushing failure, that we know of.

 

[JAJ]

...They change the angle on the rear most mounting point.....causing the arm to "angle downward" towards the front of the car...

I'm curious how they could do that. If they don't actually move the pivot bolt holes in the K member, then the shape of the arm has no bearing on the path that the ball joint will traverse in space. The only change that will affect that path is the position of the ball joint itself in relation to the two pivots.

Of course when you're making the control arm from scratch, you can put the ball joint anywhere you want. They can move it fore-and-aft or they can move it in and out. Moving the ball joint out (increasing the front track and reducing tire-to-fender clearance) will improve the camber change dynamics, but it's not clear how it will affect caster and anti-dive.

 

[Darkside323]

I have also been really interested in these arms. I hope to purchase them soon. I'm first going to start with the rear roll center relocation panhard bar kit.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'm curious how they could do that. If they don't actually move the pivot bolt holes in the K member, then the shape of the arm has no bearing on the path that the ball joint will traverse in space. The only change that will affect that path is the position of the ball joint itself in relation to the two pivots.

If the height from the mounting face of the bracket that houses the bushing to the center of that bushing's pivot bolt changes, the location of the pivot will be different even though the mounting face is in the same place.

Of course when you're making the control arm from scratch, you can put the ball joint anywhere you want. They can move it fore-and-aft or they can move it in and out. Moving the ball joint out (increasing the front track and reducing tire-to-fender clearance) will improve the camber change dynamics, but it's not clear how it will affect caster and anti-dive.

Moving the BJ forward increases positive caster, because the strut top attachment point remains in the same place. It changes the anti-dive, which is tied to the strut inclination as seen in side view. It probably also increases the rates at which these parameters vary with ride height.

If both bracket mounting face to pivot bolt heights on the same front control arm (above) are not changed by the same amount, the anti-dive and caster gain will be changed whether or not the static caster is made different.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

We now use a ball-joint that we designed in house, standard on all of our arms. NEMustang had an issue with our previous ball-joints, so we went through a new supplier and designed our own. I would put our new ball-joints against ANY out there, and they are only $59.95/each if bought separately.

I'm a bit interested in these. Are they any taller than stock, and can they be installed in OE control arms?


As far as bushing bind goes, I can't for the life of me make all of those pictures show that the sleeves in them are concentric. Particularly the one with the OE arm. I've modified polyurethane bushings to be more tolerant of multi-axis motion before, but I'd be wary about trying anything similar here.


Norm

 

[Kobie]

I've been looking at these for some time now. I haven't been able to find any feedback on them and look forward to hearing end user comments.
I don't see any grease fittings for servicing.

 

[NEMustang]

I'm a bit interested in these. Are they any taller than stock, and can they be installed in OE control arms?


As far as bushing bind goes, I can't for the life of me make all of those pictures show that the sleeves in them are concentric. Particularly the one with the OE arm. I've modified polyurethane bushings to be more tolerant of multi-axis motion before, but I'd be wary about trying anything similar here.


Norm

Norm,

I will have these new ball joints delivered by EOD Monday. I didn't ask Kelly (BMR) who manufactures the new ones, but the prior set was engineered by Ingalls. I had one snap under heavy braking...106 mph going into a tight 55mph 180* corner.

Yes, they are supposed to be 3/4 inch taller...just like Ingalls and Steeda X5. BMR indicated that they helped design them (I assume for strength). I'm sure Kelly can answer if they fit stock LCAs.

I am still at a loss as to why these LCAs cost $300 more than comparable BMR/Steeda/UPR etc arms...again, quality product, probably well engineered...but no better than my BMRs

 

[MTNMAN]

Just got this in for the project too.

 

[MTNMAN]

It looks like Open Track Connection in TX used these arms on their shop Boss 302.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.121099971353346.21461.108275175969159&type=3

 

[kevinatfms]

I had one snap under heavy braking...106 mph going into a tight 55mph 180* corner.

talk about a butt pucker moment...jesus, did you shit yourself?