Looking for advice from experienced track go-ers

[Renesis07]

Hey s197 bros! My boss sprung on me a track event tomorrow that he would like me to go to with him. I have a quick question that I'm hoping hasn't been asked too frequently (because I'd prefer helpful answers over the 'search' comments).

This is my first track outing, ever. So it's a nice balance of being excited, nervous, and anxious.

My question, is there anything I should know before I get out there and drive? Biggest concern is braking, since this is such short notice I really don't have time to do much... Is OEM brake fluid, rotors, and pads okay for the day? Last thing I want is to get brake fade and end up off the track.

I don't intend to be running the car for hours on end back to back, and since it's my first time ever and I will have an instructor with me, I doubt I'll be going all out. I do however, want to make sure my car and myself are safe.

Any additional tips or advice are appreciated. Thanks guys

 

[Rehagen Racing]

We instruct drivers with bone stock cars all the time. It's a great place to determine where your upgrade path should take you.

We do recommend that all your fluids are fresh and full though. Also check any other wear items before you hit the track (brakes, tires, etc). You don't want to have something fail at the track, or possibly not pass tech.

Just take it easy, listen to the instructor, and gain valuable seat time.

 

[Renesis07]

We instruct drivers with bone stock cars all the time. It's a great place to determine where your upgrade path should take you.

We do recommend that all your fluids are fresh and full though. Also check any other wear items before you hit the track (brakes, tires, etc). You don't want to have something fail at the track, or possibly not pass tech.

Just take it easy, listen to the instructor, and gain valuable seat time.

Thank you! That is pretty much what my boss said. My car did need front brakes. So I am swapping them today, and I plan to have them do a brake fluid flush at the same time. I'm going to drive the car around tonight to 'break in' the new brakes a little before tomorrow. The track is a good 30 miles away as well. So new front rotors & pads and fresh brake fluid are all in the works.

Now, this next question will definitely sound noob-ish. I work at a Dodge Dealership and they're performing the brake flush, does it matter what brake fluid they use as long as it's a DOT3 fluid? (I believe that's what my car takes)

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

There are a lot of variables involved: how you drive, typical brake wear seen at that track, etc.But for the most part...

OEM fluid is not OK for track use. This has to be replaced before you go on track. Do it now or learn the hard way. Otherwise your day will be very very very short.

Higher boiling point DOT4 brake fluid is a must on track for heavy cars like Mustangs

OEM Pads will be very marginal on track, even taking it easy. Stock pads are made for street use to work dead cold, not be too "grabby" (low coef of friction) operate quietly and not produce dust. This is the polar opposite of what you want on track - you want them to work HOT, stop with a high coefficient of friction, and to do that track pads will make noise and produce dust.

Take it very easy and you might not see any trouble. If any instructor/experienced drivers take the wheel prepare for massive pad wear and a short session.

There is one thing you cannot ignore - Inspect your brakes after each session. Look for the thickness of the friction material on the front and rear brake pads. They should have about 1/4" to 5/16" of thickness when new, and once they get down under 1/16" thick they don't work much longer. Also look for lots of weird colors and micro-cracks. This means the rotor is reaching end of life. If you get them very hot you could see a complete crack all the way through the rotor your day is done... that crack will quickly scrape away all brake pad material.

Just keep an eye on the rotors and pads. And when you come in off the track, take a COOL DOWN LAP on your last lap (after you see a checkered flag). Try to make it around the course w/o touching your brakes, or only barely so. Then open your hood in the pits and let the engine cool and put the car in gear but DON'T set the parking brake. That can warp the rear rotors - setting the brake with hot brakes.

Good luck,

 

[Renesis07]

There are a lot of variables involved: how you drive, typical brake wear seen at that track, etc.But for the most part...

OEM fluid is not OK for track use. This has to be replaced before you go on track. Do it now or learn the hard way. Otherwise your day will be very very very short.

Higher boiling point DOT4 brake fluid is a must on track for heavy cars like Mustangs

OEM Pads will be very marginal on track, even taking it easy. Stock pads are made for street use to work dead cold, not be too "grabby" (low coef of friction) operate quietly and not produce dust. This is the polar opposite of what you want on track - you want them to work HOT, stop with a high coefficient of friction, and to do that track pads will make noise and produce dust.

Take it very easy and you might not see any trouble. If any instructor/experienced drivers take the wheel prepare for massive pad wear and a short session.

There is one thing you cannot ignore - Inspect your brakes after each session. Look for the thickness of the friction material on the front and rear brake pads. They should have about 1/4" to 5/16" of thickness when new, and once they get down under 1/16" thick they don't work much longer. Also look for lots of weird colors and micro-cracks. This means the rotor is reaching end of life. If you get them very hot you could see a complete crack all the way through the rotor your day is done... that crack will quickly scrape away all brake pad material.

Just keep an eye on the rotors and pads. And when you come in off the track, take a COOL DOWN LAP on your last lap (after you see a checkered flag). Try to make it around the course w/o touching your brakes, or only barely so. Then open your hood in the pits and let the engine cool and put the car in gear but DON'T set the parking brake. That can warp the rear rotors - setting the brake with hot brakes.

Good luck,

Thank you for the advice, very helpful. So you recommend I use DOT4 brake fluid? Does it have to be brand specific or can I just use DOT4 fluid? Keeping in mind I have only today to get my ducks in a row, what do you recommend I buy? I have my appointment for 2PM in my service department so I can run out and buy some fluid if need be...

 

[Renesis07]

Just checked with our parts department. Would something like this be a good alternative?

 

[Renesis07]

All braking components on my car are stock, if that helps at all. Just want to make sure a) this DOT4 fluid is actually worth using and b) it will work with my OEM brakes and not give me any issues..

 

[Rehagen Racing]

I agree with Terry on the brake fluid being the first thing to change, although we do have customers going to the track completely stock.

If you can easily get your hands on the motul 600, Brembo LCF600, or something similar, I would recommend that.

 

[DUFUS]

All braking components on my car are stock, if that helps at all. Just want to make sure a) this DOT4 fluid is actually worth using and b) it will work with my OEM brakes and not give me any issues..

Best would be a high-temp/racing DOT4 fluid like the Motul choices from the reply above. But you may not be able to find on short notice, it's not going to be stocked at a typical auto parts store or dealership. Maybe... You can find ATE Super Blue fluid at a BMW dealership?
Regardless of what you use for fluid, the stock pads will be the limiting factor. Don't channel the spirit of Ayrton Senna out there.
Mind Dirty Harry: "A man's got to know his limitations".

 

[Renesis07]

I agree with Terry on the brake fluid being the first thing to change, although we do have customers going to the track completely stock.

If you can easily get your hands on the motul 600, Brembo LCF600, or something similar, I would recommend that.

If I can't get my hands on the above (I will certainly try).... Do you guys think that DOT4 I posted is worthwhile over DOT3 fluid?

 

[Renesis07]

Best would be a high-temp/racing DOT4 fluid like the Motul choices from the reply above. But you may not be able to find on short notice, it's not going to be stocked at a typical auto parts store or dealership. Maybe... You can find ATE Super Blue fluid at a BMW dealership?
Regardless of what you use for fluid, the stock pads will be the limiting factor. Don't channel the spirit of Ayrton Senna out there.
Mind Dirty Harry: "A man's got to know his limitations".

Ha! FWIW I'm going mainly for the experience. I'm going to be driving the boss' porsche as well, I just wanted to get my car out there. Being my first time, I have no intention of going 'all out'. This time is for the experience and learning. Still want to do whatever I can to keep my car safe. Call it 'cheap insurance' lol

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

If you can't get Motul today, and you are getting a brake flush at the dealership, maybe run to some parts stores and look for Catrol LMA:

It can work in a pinch (509°F boiling point). You will need at least 2 pints to flush the system, so get 3. Always good to have extra fluid with you at the track. I bring cases of Motul with us to races - somebody always needs some. If you can't find LMA then look for "syntheic" on the bottle, and check the boiling point. Do NOT get DOT5 fluid (incompatible + hygroscopic)

The boiling points are what matter. The dry point on Motul RBF600 is 594°F (nearly 600°). Most cheap stuff is closer to 300°. BIG difference...

Good luck,

 

[Philostang]

I don't have any problem instructing newbie students in bone-stock cars, but I always keep my eyes on their gear, make sure their eyes are on their gear, and give them a sense of what they should be on the lookout for their first event (so they can begin to self-identify pending trouble).

Very small stress-cracks are normal. If they look like very tiny/thin-n-spidery lines that are less than an inch long, you're fine. Once they start to get longer than an inch and/or wider than a solid hair's width, I'd back off. Another stress crack test is to run your fingernail across them. If they catch your fingernail, they're done. They've most likely already gotten wide by this point (i.e. no longer thin-spider-lines), and you may have been aware of them by now just with a visual inspection. Also, any cracks that have begun to spread onto the outskirts of the rotor, beyond the pad's swept area, are a concern for me. So if the outer perimeter of your rotors are showing stress cracks you should be pretty concerned (to my mind you now have a "run-away" crack, as their is no surrounding steel on one side of it to help deal with the forces of expansion and contraction as the rotor is heat cycled).

As for driving, I tell my students that they should pay special attention on the end of their first session (if they've been pushing a bit hard already) or during their second session (after the jitters have subsided and they've started to pick up the pace). That's about as good as your brakes are going to feel all weekend, so it's a good bench line by which to judge pedal travel, pedal feel, and stopping power.

The idea is to get a decent frame of reference for what your "optimal" braking feels like. If you get that, you can begin to notice both brake fade and boiled fluid long before either throws you off track. If you drive with an experienced driver, you may notice they'll tell you things like "brakes are starting to go" and be totally unphased by it - that's because they've noticed it way ahead of time and have plenty of opportunity to do something about it (like brake less, slow the pace, or whatnot).

So as a learning experience, you want to build up that same awareness of what your brakes are doing. I think too many folks are not paying attention to their brakes (or don't know what to attend to) and then "all of a sudden!" things go awry.

Take it easy and settle in to being on track at first: you need this off of your mental-plate in order to start being aware of other things. Then get a firm sense of what everything feels like when you know it's all good. From there, you'll start to notice different forms of degradation.

Have a blast!

Best,
-j

 

[jayel579]

If I can't get my hands on the above (I will certainly try).... Do you guys think that DOT4 I posted is worthwhile over DOT3 fluid?

Wilwood EXP 600 is pretty common in a lot of performance shops, that is what I run. Not overly expensive either. ATe stains everything blue, bleeder bottle, booster reservoir, etc... the only reason I would stay away from it.

Summit Racing ships same day if you cant find it locally.

 

[Renesis07]

Thank you for all the useful answers guys. I'm going to place some calls and see if I can get my hands on some of your suggestions.

If not, I did some research on that stuff I posted, here is a direct copy n paste from their website:

BG Super DOT 4 Brake FluidFormulated to meet or exceed the quality requirements of Domestic and European automobile manufacturers, BG Super DOT 4 goes beyond regular DOT 4 to provide the ultimate in high temperature, high boiling point protection. It surpasses other DOT 4 formulations by increasing flow at low temperatures while protecting against high temperature fade. BG Super DOT 4 meets and exceeds the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 116, SAE J1704, and ISO 4925. It will provide excellent corrosion prevention, and help maintain precise braking efficiency. Can be used in place of other Super DOT 4 or DOT 4 Plus brake fluids, especially found in the European market.


So hopefully I can find something better, if not, I will just go with the above. Isn't the best solution but better than just replacing with OEM DOT3. After talking with my boss, sounds like we'll be in the Porsche more than anything else anyways, he said he doesn't anticipate me beating on my car all day, more like a couple runs then using his car.

Thank you guys again, I will update with how my first day goes!

 

[Renesis07]

If you can't get Motul today, and you are getting a brake flush at the dealership, maybe run to some parts stores and look for Catrol LMA:

It can work in a pinch (509°F boiling point). You will need at least 2 pints to flush the system, so get 3. Always good to have extra fluid with you at the track. I bring cases of Motul with us to races - somebody always needs some. If you can't find LMA then look for "syntheic" on the bottle, and check the boiling point. Do NOT get DOT5 fluid (incompatible + hygroscopic)

The boiling points are what matter. The dry point on Motul RBF600 is 594°F (nearly 600°). Most cheap stuff is closer to 300°. BIG difference...

Good luck,

Okay I just checked on the BG DOT4 we have here. The boiling points are 580+ dry and 380 wet.

I called over to local parts stores and they carry Valvoline & Prestone (sp?). Both of which had lower boiling points. Looks like I'm going with the stuff we got here, I was actually shocked the boiling points were so high with this stuff...

 

[DUFUS]

Thank you guys again, I will update with how my first day goes!

I was going to ask for a report. Complete with pics/video too, of course.

BTW, what track are you going to?

 

[Renesis07]

I was going to ask for a report. Complete with pics/video too, of course.

BTW, what track are you going to?

Autobahn in Joliet. I see you're local, maybe we'll see each other along the way at some point! Whereabouts in northern IL? I grew up in Lindenhurst and my brother lives in Antioch..

This is one of those times I wish I had a go pro.... I know my boss will have his on his car haha...

 

[Philostang]

HEY! That's great - another Chicago-area driver!

I run Autobahn quite a bit, you're going to have fun. I've got one last event scheduled there this season. Might see you around some time.

Best,
-j

 

[Renesis07]

HEY! That's great - another Chicago-area driver!

I run Autobahn quite a bit, you're going to have fun. I've got one last event scheduled there this season. Might see you around some time.

Best,
-j

Nice! I've never been but heard a lot about it. I've been really wanting to just get my car on a track, especially since I did the suspension. Really excited (and nervous). Lets see how I do this first time around lol, maybe in the future we can get an s197forum crowd out there since we have a few guys on here that go