Mach E no start concnern

Discussion in '2015+ S550 Mustang Chit Chat' started by 86GT351, Jun 4, 2021.

  1. RED09GT

    RED09GT Equal Opportunity Offender S197 Team Member

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    That is if there is enough material available in 8 years for both new car production and for replacement packs. Nickel will be $50/lb by then and the auto manufacturers will have bought futures on all of the supply years prior to the mines being able to pass the environmental review period.

    Emissions targets will be met in Canada but the earth will be no better for it. We have just about completely done away with smelting of metals in Canada so that is gone-less overall emissions to ship the concentrate by train to the port so we score points for a small amount of overall emissions reduction there (ignoring the fact that it will then go on a container ship, burn bunker fuel across the ocean, then get smelted in a smelter in China with double the emissions per lb of Ni or Cu refined, then burn bunker fuel all the way back to North America, and then by rail to its final destination in the auto industry).

    Electric cars will eventually become a superior product compared to today's internal combustion counterparts-no different in how today's models are superior to those from 10 years ago. But in the near future, we will have ended internal combustion automobiles, depleted stocks of the required battery minerals and the cost of the average automobile will make them unattainable for many. Yet, the environment will not see any tangible benefit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021 at 12:20 AM
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  2. 07gts197

    07gts197 forum member

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    Do you have any evidence to back that up? I’d genuinely like to know.

    If this is the article that you’re referencing, it says production numbers are higher not sales.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ca...651347/ford-mustang-mach-e-vs-gas-production/

    Also the mach e is one example of an ev, that’s a small sample size. Yes people are buying more electric vehicles and hybrids than in the past but gasoline engines still make up a larger portion of new car sales. It’ll take a while before it goes the other way. Will it happen, yeah. Is it going to be within the next decade, that’s debatable. If the issues with batteries can be addressed then yes it’s likely. However it’ll still be too late to prevent an increase of global average temperatures.


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  3. eighty6gt

    eighty6gt forum member

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    How can you say this with such confidence
     
  4. RED09GT

    RED09GT Equal Opportunity Offender S197 Team Member

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    I work in exploration and development for a major mining corporation and have worked on feasibility studies for many projects.
    The biggest obstacle these days are the environmental baseline studies required and the complex government permitting process. Most of the majors have declining inventory and the jr plays are pure vapour due to most of them grossly underestimating development costs and having poor understanding of their metallurgy. The next issue is the poor environmental legacy of many of these base metal mines by past producers.
    For a robust project, it takes 10 years to reach the advanced exploration stage, 5 years of baseline environmental studies (might start at year 8 of exploration for a company with deep pockets), 3 years of permitting process, add in another 3 due to special interest groups posturing, 3 years for construction, 3 years for collaborative infrastructure projects with government for power delivery and production and we won't have a significant increase in the supply of Nickel over the next 2 decades. Combine that with the demand from electric vehicles going from 2% market share from a couple years ago to 100% by 2040 in some jurisdictions and then add in year over year demand increases and it all starts to look a bit bleak.
    I'll make good money getting frustrated by the whole process though.
     
  5. Pentalab

    Pentalab forum member

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    Meanwhile, North Korea etc, will find nickel, lithium etc buried in the hills, and will reduce your 20 year project... down to just 3-4 years. In your example, you can probably tack on several more years from the..'special interest groups'.
     
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  6. Pentalab

    Pentalab forum member

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    You may well be correct.... but where is the increase in the electrical power coming from ? Like I said b4, it would require a bare minimum of tripling the capacity of the power grid, just to get your toes wet. And if the left wing nut cases get their way, you won't be able to heat your home with natural gas, then what ?

    Natural gas appliances like forced hot air furnaces, stoves, clothes dryers, fireplaces, BBQ, hot water tanks.... will be verboten. You got any idea how much it cost to heat a home with electric ? Lady friend of mine a few blocks away pays $485.00 per month to heat her home...and also has an electric hot water tank. Meanwhile, I pay $35.00 per month for electric...all year round.... + $20.00 per month (in summer) for natural gas for the hot water......and more in winter. And I'm running AC in the summer, sometimes for 14 hrs straight. Folks around here are having natural gas installed at an unprecedented rate. On average, natural gas is 75% LESS vs electric.

    Get rid of natural gas, and electrical consumption will be off the charts. Toss in EV cars, then electrical consumption /demand will be through the stratosphere. To pull that off, will require nukes, and lots of em, as in hundreds of em. Then you still have the problem of rebuilding the ENTIRE distribution grid....coast to coast. A typ 50 KVA pole xfmr in front of your home weighs 900 lbs. Do the maths, 150-250 kva required.
     
  7. eighty6gt

    eighty6gt forum member

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    The fact is

    The winds are blowing for electric. It's what the consumer wants, it's what Joe wants. It will happen. The details don't matter one bit.
     
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  8. RED09GT

    RED09GT Equal Opportunity Offender S197 Team Member

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    Like the capital market guys always say, if the ducks are quacking, feed them
     
  9. LikeabossTM

    LikeabossTM forum member

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    Is this another reference to the shat's flip phone? Cuz I'm starting to lose track of where that does or doesn't apply to conversations.
     
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  10. Robert Larimer

    Robert Larimer Junior Member

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    Heat pumps are pretty efficient for electric heat but I don't see us giving up Nat gas soon. It is the cleanest of fossil fuels and will be the last to go. Here in S. Florida I have resistance electric heat and it is very wasteful. Luckily we don't need it much. Sadly nuclear power plants have priced themselves out of the market and are the most expensive power by far. We are going to rebuild our electric grid anyway so that power may be shared nationwide. There is a possibility that hydrogen fuel cell vehicles can take some of the stress off the electric grid if we can produce enough gas to power them.
     
  11. RED09GT

    RED09GT Equal Opportunity Offender S197 Team Member

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    It is more of a reference that if people want something, sell it to them and don't be ashamed to overcharge if they are that sure that they need it.
     
  12. elvis

    elvis Junior Member

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    Over half of all electricity is cogenerated from Natural gas.....More energy to move the cogen electricity and run to homes than if a house has natural gas. NGV vehicles have no emissions , downside have to have a tank in trunk or somewhere. Buses, trash trucks, delivery vehicles and some passenger trucks cars run on Natural gas. Natural gas is regulated -sell for what you buy it for... wish electric was like that. Yes I work for natural gas co for 35 years. We helped sponsor a dedicated el camino that raced 1/4 mile. The motor was 15.1 compression natural gas and being dedicated only to run on natl gas this was able to happen. 10 second times in the early 90s. Some vehicles are made bi fuel so if you run out of cng it switches to gasoline. CNG is cheaper than gasoline also. Check out CNG bus or vehicle if you see one. Also you take a motor apart no carbon at all, no emissions. . There are CNG stations where you can buy it for vehicles. In CA & AZ allowed to use the commuting lane. https://maps.cngnow.com/
     
  13. 07gts197

    07gts197 forum member

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    Over half? In what country? A quick google search showed about 40%, that’s a little shy of “over half”. The issue with converting to natural gas is that is still a fossil fuel so it’s not renewable. Now add in the cost to add new stations to fuel up with cng and to convert vehicles to cng and you have a huge financial burden. It would be interesting to convert say a Mustang to cng though. I wonder what kind of mileage such a car would get.

    https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

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  14. elvis

    elvis Junior Member

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    well 47 % of Texas... my country I guess. Not saying to add stations that sell it. Group in Boston went across US on Cng. Up until about 3 yrs ago Honda made dedicated CNG CIvic. Also available for sale are "Phil" stations people can put in their garage to fill their cars , gas comes from you gas meter at your house.
     
  15. 07gts197

    07gts197 forum member

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    Texas is not a country. How did they go across the us without filling up?

    Ford build cng cars too, the crown Vic was one of them. Not really important though as it wasn’t a hot seller.

    I’m sure you could use a “Phil” station, whatever that is, but where would you fill up when you’re out? And gas stations could adapt but at an expense. Infrastructure need a lot of money and time to catch up.

    Also in places like Florida where it doesn’t get cold enough, we don’t use natural gas. Who’s going to foot the bill for natural gas infrastructure and installation?


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  16. elvis

    elvis Junior Member

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    Yes they did.. and do same as Chevrolet, that is what gas co.s use for their fleets and cars. Fill in yard. Laredo has Natural gas, Phoenix ...Las Vegas, warmer there than Florida, Padre Island has NAtl gas. Gas companies have their own lines, for subdivisions, industry, and COGEN. They foot the bill, and that is why they are on the stock market, actual businesses. I am not saying to change the whole transportation system. I will not get rid of my diesel truck and my Boss 302 I have had for over 40 yrs., or my other mustang... in my lifetime. Just presenting an option to people that may want one. If you open this map a you can go across e-w or n -south look at the stations . I20 I10 I70, I40 I35 pick your route. Not too hard they are everywhere, it can be done. They stopped and presented to us and traveled to all gas companies to promote and be on news etc. like 10 yrs ago. https://maps.cngnow.com/ I count 25 CNG stations in Florida, not counting ones at Distribution Companies for the field . Not creating big deal, each to his own. Partial to Nat'l gas as I have been around it forever. Peace
     
  17. DieHarder

    DieHarder Member

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    "Texas is not a country."

    To many/most Texan's it is.... They have their own way of life; they have their own electrical grid and they've been producing natural resources out of the ground for well over 100 years (actually oil was first detected by Spanish explorers in 1543). Outside of the big cities they have a very frontier like attitude in how they view the world. Ask anyone who lives there. Even if they don't own up to it outright they'll likely give you a wry smile...;D
     
  18. 07gts197

    07gts197 forum member

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    I understand the sentiment but when I ask what country I didn’t expect Texas lol. Anyway yes I get what you’re saying but my whole thing is that just like electric cars, there needs to be a change in infrastructure. And when I was talking about who’s going to pay I meant for household hookup. We don’t have gas lines where I live so there would need to be natural gas lines ran to my area from probably 10 or so miles away then onto our property, which the home owner would have to pay for. We had a similar issue a few years ago when the city of Cape Coral wanted to charge each homeowner thousands of dollars for sewer and water hookup, which they didn’t have before in most of the municipality.

    Bringing cng to service stations for public consumption, on a national scale as readily available as gas, would take time and a lot of money. Could the gas companies pay out of pocket? They have enough in profits for sure, it’s my opinion that there would have to be a huge redesign at the pump that would create a huge financial burden. A new gas station that was built with cng in mind is a different story.


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  19. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson corner barstool sitter

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    That's about as different from the way I want my cars to drive as you can get.

    I don't need, use, or want big acceleration response in the lower speed ranges associated with most non-highway speeds. It'd only make trying to drive smoothly into, through, and out of the corners trickier than it need be. And if you're going to rein all that response in with electronic nannies there's not even much point in having it in the first place.

    I need braking to be 100% on me, not shared with unknown amounts of regenerative braking.


    Norm
     
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  20. eighty6gt

    eighty6gt forum member

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    Old fogeys in here need to get outta the way. Daddy elon is coming through with a new model y
     
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