MCleod RST, RXT clutch

[tbrock]

I was told by the guys at JPC where I purchased the clutch that the issues were related to the floater. Whatever it was, it was a huge PITA and expensive. Glad others are having success with the McLeod RXT setup my experience was less than what you would expect for a $1500 clutch/FW.

 

[DiMora]

All the McLeod issues stemmed from bad machining of the gold ring...nothing wrong with the floater.

There are no shims in the floater...shims are used with the gold ring.

The adapter ring is what bolts to the flywheel. The bolts you showed aren't fastened until the clutch is installed so removing them is a moot point.

The floater is installed to the adapter ring (which happens to be gold on your clutch, the colors have changed over the years) What you don't want to do is remove the floater from the ring. It is shimmed by McLeod to keep the clutch disks at the proper distance from the flywheel and pressure plate.

I find all of this confusing.

I'll speak with Lee.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Speak with Lee and report back.

 

[BruceH]

The pic above is incorrect. You do not want to remove the gold ring. The bolts circled above are ok to r&r.

Do not remove the gold ring bolted to the flywheel.

Btw, that Magnum safety loop may not be compatible with your MAC install. I could not use it due to interference with my exhaust.

OK, lets clear this up...

When you buy a clutch and flywheel setup from McLeod or send yours to be speced/inspected and setup, McLeod will install the gold ring onto the flywheel.

This is the part that had a lot of issues in the past because it was manufactured incorrectly. McLeod has specific tolerances and it has to be setup perfectly otherwise you will have the issues we all had a few years back where you can no longer shift after the car/clutch is hot (bottom disc drags). I remember a conversation with McLeod where they told me some of the issues with their clutch stemmed from owners installing the gold ring and then using loctite (lots of it) on the bolts which got between the ring and flywheel and created tolerance issues. Thats how critical it is.

OK, so McLeod will setup the gold ring onto the flywheel and it should not be removed!! If you purchase a McLeod clutch kit and use your own flywheel, then of course the gold ring will have to be installed by you. But McLeod recommend sending the flywheel and clutch kit to them and they will set it up for you and ship it back.

This is the gold ring installed onto a flywheel.

If you get your clutch setup by McLeod, then DO NOT touch the bolts below!!

When you get your clutch and flywheel back from McLeod, all you have to do is remove the pressure plate, top disc, floater plate, and bottom disc.

Pressure plate (red)

Top Disc

Floating plate

Bottom disc (don't have a picture). lol

Gold ring and flywheel.

Oh and I highly suggest to get a set of ARP flywheel bolts!!!
Do not use the stock bolts as according to McLeod, the stock bolts, the head is taller and has been found to contact the clutch disc. Not sure if this was an isolated case or its common, but the ARP bolts, the heads are flatter and are advised to be used with the McLeod twin disc clutches.

Pay attention to the black stripe on the clutch as it has to be installed with all parts clocked correctly.
And make sure NOT TO USE loctite on any of the bolts; McLeod provides locking washers.

DO USE loctite on the ARP flywheel to crank bolts!!!

I hope this helps!!

I find all of this confusing.

I'll speak with Lee.

Geralds arrows are pointing to the bolts that hold the clutch to the flywheel. When you buy the clutch they aren't even installed yet. The part that's shimmed is the floater ring and adapter plate (gold ring). You don't want to take the floater off of the adapter ring. The clutch install can be done without removing the floater.

I don't understand what Gerald is getting at. If the flywheel and clutch were set up by McLeod it would still have to come apart to install the flywheel to the motor. The adapter ring has to be able to come off in order to put the first clutch in. Since the adapter rings bolts to the flywheel there is no way the clutch can be installed without the bolts Gerald points to. BTW they aren't installed from the factory, there isn't a flywheel to install them to.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Dimora will report back.

I'm my particular case, i initially bought my RST and Fidanza flywheel separately and had an experienced local shop instal it. A few thousand miles later i had issues.

Dropped the trans, inspected the clutch and noticed the bottom clutch disc and flywheel had uneven wear with hot spots. Long story short, the bottom clutch disc warped when it heated.

McLeod changed the Fidanza for one of their flywheels and upgraded the discs to RXTs. McLeod installed the gold ring onto the flywheel and explicitly told me not to remove it. Only remove the pressure plate and floating ring.

When I overhauled my car in 2012, i sent my clutch and flywheel back to McLeod to get 26 spline hubs installed in my clutch discs and flywheel swapped from aluminum to lightweight steel. Again, i was explicitly told not to touch the gold ring.

The gold ring is what sets the clearance between the bottom disc and the flywheel. The floater plate is just there for the ride.

We'll just wait for Dimora to report back.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

The instructions I got with my RXT and McLeod flywheel said not to remove the floater plate.

The flywheel and clutch were ordered at the same time and shipped at the same time in separate boxes.

 

[AutoXRacer]

The instructions I got with my RXT and McLeod flywheel said not to remove the floater plate.

The flywheel and clutch were ordered at the same time and shipped at the same time in separate boxes.

Did you have your clutch and flywheel setup by McLeod? If you bought it from a vendor, or course it will come in separate boxes. When you get it setup by McLeod it comes in one box and parts are marked.

Update:
Interesting, just read McLeod's instructions online and they are totally different from what McLeod has told me in the past. But then again, my flywheel and clutch have been pre-set by McLeod.

Will be interesting to hear back from Dimora.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Did you have your clutch and flywheel setup by McLeod? If you bought it from a vendor, or course it will come in separate boxes. When you get it setup by McLeod it comes in one box and parts are marked.

Update:
Interesting, just read McLeod's instructions online and they are totally different from what McLeod has told me in the past. But then again, my flywheel and clutch have been pre-set by McLeod.

Will be interesting to hear back from Dimora.

I bought through JPC, so you aren't wrong.

But I remember those instructions being like that. Perhaps McLeod revised their instructions/manufacturing process?

I will say, even after following the instructions perfectly, I have an audible "whooshing" noise coming from that general area with the clutch fully engaged during load. It stops when I let off the gas. I figured it was my hydraulic throwout bearing.

 

[BruceH]

So you had it custom machined for your flywheel? Why? As it comes out of the box the floater is set to a tolerance that will allow it to work with any flywheel that is in spec. That's why they say not to mess with the floater, it's shimmed to work with any Ford spec flywheel, including McLeod.

Even when I had a McLeod flywheel and rst there were no issues with it on the first motor or the second one and I surely did remove the adapter ring from the flywheel.

You are now stuck with sending the whole assembly back every time you need a clutch? FYI the floater is what both clutches contact. It seperates them and acts as a friction surface for them. The floater is what allows a twin disc clutch to work. That's why it has to be precisely located between the clutches.

Dimora will report back.

I'm my particular case, i initially bought my RST and Fidanza flywheel separately and had an experienced local shop instal it. A few thousand miles later i had issues.

Dropped the trans, inspected the clutch and noticed the bottom clutch disc and flywheel had uneven wear with hot spots. Long story short, the bottom clutch disc warped when it heated.

McLeod changed the Fidanza for one of their flywheels and upgraded the discs to RXTs. McLeod installed the gold ring onto the flywheel and explicitly told me not to remove it. Only remove the pressure plate and floating ring.

When I overhauled my car in 2012, i sent my clutch and flywheel back to McLeod to get 26 spline hubs installed in my clutch discs and flywheel swapped from aluminum to lightweight steel. Again, i was explicitly told not to touch the gold ring.

The gold ring is what sets the clearance between the bottom disc and the flywheel. The floater plate is just there for the ride.

We'll just wait for Dimora to report back.

 

[AutoXRacer]

So you had it custom machined for your flywheel? Why? As it comes out of the box the floater is set to a tolerance that will allow it to work with any flywheel that is in spec. That's why they say not to mess with the floater, it's shimmed to work with any Ford spec flywheel, including McLeod.

Even when I had a McLeod flywheel and rst there were no issues with it on the first motor or the second one and I surely did remove the adapter ring from the flywheel.

You are now stuck with sending the whole assembly back every time you need a clutch? FYI the floater is what both clutches contact. It seperates them and acts as a friction surface for them. The floater is what allows a twin disc clutch to work. That's why it has to be precisely located between the clutches.

No, my flywheel never got machined. When I say McLeod speced/setup my clutch I am referring to them checking all the tolerances and bolting everything up to make sure its perfect.

I send my clutch to McLeod because its part of their customer warranty to check over the clutch after every removal; its free.

The instructions Lee has always given me (personally) is to not remove the gold ring or I would undo their critical installation.

Bruce, are you sure the floating ring is shimmed? I don't think it is as I have R&Red it several times and there are no shims...its a simple bolt-on.

You were lucky with your RST as most of us ended up with a bad gold ring that caused issues; according to McLeod.

 

[BruceH]

I'm referring to the tabs that connect the floater to the adapter ring. I haven't looked at one for awhile but iirc they are shimmed with a peel shim. The Camaro directions that are floating around are very specific about getting the shims right. The problem is that the floater plate distance is set by McLeod and doesn't need adjustment. Later directions warned not to change the distance between the adapter and floater.

AFAIK nobody who followed the installation directions had an issue with the rst. I put my first one on in 2009. It came off when I installed a 6060 a year or so later. At that time a new rst with 26 spline clutch hubs went in. It was swapped to another motor and still, no issues. Some of the torques are incredibly low, it would be very easy for a shop using the goodntight method to over torque and warp.

Willie Hammeron has a nice install guide that mirrors the McLeod directions. Back then the adapter ring was blue.

http://home.comcast.net/~cookpaging/hammeron/clutch/clutch.html

 

[DiMora]

The instructions I got with my RXT and McLeod flywheel said not to remove the floater plate.

The flywheel and clutch were ordered at the same time and shipped at the same time in separate boxes.

I'll report back what hte instructions say when I get it. Lee said he removes the floater plate.

Did you have your clutch and flywheel setup by McLeod? If you bought it from a vendor, or course it will come in separate boxes. When you get it setup by McLeod it comes in one box and parts are marked.

Update:
Interesting, just read McLeod's instructions online and they are totally different from what McLeod has told me in the past. But then again, my flywheel and clutch have been pre-set by McLeod.

Will be interesting to hear back from Dimora.

I'm curious as well to see what the instructions say and if they conflict with what Lee said over the phone.

So you had it custom machined for your flywheel? Why? As it comes out of the box the floater is set to a tolerance that will allow it to work with any flywheel that is in spec. That's why they say not to mess with the floater, it's shimmed to work with any Ford spec flywheel, including McLeod.

Even when I had a McLeod flywheel and rst there were no issues with it on the first motor or the second one and I surely did remove the adapter ring from the flywheel.

You are now stuck with sending the whole assembly back every time you need a clutch? FYI the floater is what both clutches contact. It seperates them and acts as a friction surface for them. The floater is what allows a twin disc clutch to work. That's why it has to be precisely located between the clutches.

No, my flywheel never got machined. When I say McLeod speced/setup my clutch I am referring to them checking all the tolerances and bolting everything up to make sure its perfect.

I send my clutch to McLeod because its part of their customer warranty to check over the clutch after every removal; its free.

The instructions Lee has always given me (personally) is to not remove the gold ring or I would undo their critical installation.

Bruce, are you sure the floating ring is shimmed? I don't think it is as I have R&Red it several times and there are no shims...its a simple bolt-on.

You were lucky with your RST as most of us ended up with a bad gold ring that caused issues; according to McLeod.

Alright - McLeod is done with my clutch and flywheel setup.

Quick review: I sent them Skwerl's slightly used RST and asked them to convert it to an RXT and mate it to a brand new McLeod 6 bolt lightened steel flywheel.

Total for upgrade, setup and shipping: $550.00. I bought the flywheel separately from JPC racing, so add another $379.

With the upgrade, I got a new pressure plate and floater as part of that $550.

I spoke with Lee, told him the whole story about problems with my RST and TR3650 with factory GT flywheel, and he told me that the problem was improper installation. Hmmm. He said folks that follow the directions and pictures never have an issue. I did not install it myself, so I cannot confirm or deny proper installation or not, but I did use a grat mechanic who I trust and I gave him explicit instructions to follow the instructions! Perhaps the autopsy upon removal will shed some light. (Car is still intact at this moment with my other RST and stock GT flywheel on a TR3650). I am using this new RXT converted setup with Skwerl's T56 Magnum XL I bought.

I asked Lee specifically about what to unbolt or not unbolt - and about shims. He said it did not matter - as long as I follow the directions. He said install instructions (with pictures) are included in the return box.

Lee said that he could Blue Lok-Tite the gold ring to the flywheel for me and torque to spec, or I could do it myself. He said that there are no shims used on the gold ring. More on shims in a second.

Lee said that unbolting the floater ring is easiest for installation (Leave gold ring mounted). So...remove the pressure plate and floater ring, install flywheel, install inner disc, install floater, install top disc and pressure plate.

I asked if he could e-mail me the instructions he was referring to - and he said the proper instructions will be in the box. Good enough.

I asked about what is shimmed. He said that NO SHIMS should be used on this clutch at all. He said it leaves the factory within spec with no shims.

I asked for clarification on whether shims are used on the gold mount ring or the floater, and again, he said no shims are to be used anywhere. I probably should have asked if that held true for both RST and RXT but I did not.

He said that people sometimes use shims to get clearances after they warp their floater ring - which is wrong to do. If the floater is warped, it should be replaced.

So...there you have it. When I get it back, I'll carefully inspect it all and follow the instructions precisely (or make sure my installer does). I'll probably pull one gold ring bolt and make sure they used Blue Lok-Tite. If confirmed, I'll re-Lok-Tite the bolt and torque it to spec. I'll tell the installer (if it is not me) to follow the directions precisely. Of course I am assuming the instructions will precisely match what Lee just told me over the phone. If not...I'll be calling him back to ask about any differences.

I really want to install it myself to make sure it is done right, but I don't know if I'll have time. Work is brutal right now. I may get access to a lift on a Sunday through my neighbor and get to do it myself. I really don't want to lie on my back again for this.

I'll post up the instructions that come in the box when I get it and keep this thread updated with break-in and my end results. I'll be if this clutch has to come out again.

Shane

 

[BruceH]

These are the instructions from the McLeod website. I got them off of cjponyparts. http://www.cjponyparts.com/skin/frontend/cj-pony/default/images/install-pdf/install_mcleod3.pdf

I'm going to see if I can pull up the old directions that said to measure clearance and shim if necessary. I always thought the straps were peel shims that were set up at the factory. IIRC the different layers can be seen when looking at it from the side.

 

[skwerl]

I know it may not seem like it now, but it will be worth all the aggravation once you get the T56 installed. It will transform your driving experience.

 

[DiMora]

I know it may not seem like it now, but it will be worth all the aggravation once you get the T56 installed. It will transform your driving experience.

I'm stoked. I admit it. I've shifted it in the garage as it sits in the crate-box...like a little kid...dreaming of banging through WOTBOX rev limited smooth shifts while shooting fire out the tailpipes with each gear.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I'm stoked. I admit it. I've shifted it in the garage as it sits in the crate-box...like a little kid...dreaming of banging through WOTBOX rev limited smooth shifts while shooting fire out the tailpipes with each gear.

DiMora, do not bang gears...thats how people create issues with their transmissions.

Transmissions are meant to be treated with control...smooth precise shifting.
Over extending the shifts and banging them in will prematurely wear the synchronizers and related parts.

You can shift extremely fast without having to abuse the shifter. lol

And I don't know about your WOTBOX... I see some bad things happening if you ever increase the power.

 

[rzaenglein]

I just ordered my rxt and aluminum flywheel.....just got it and my floater ring is not installed on my flywheel....why?? Guess I will have to call Mcleod and ship it back to them and waste more time.

 

[DiMora]

DiMora, do not bang gears...thats how people create issues with their transmissions.

Transmissions are meant to be treated with control...smooth precise shifting.
Over extending the shifts and banging them in will prematurely wear the synchronizers and related parts.

You can shift extremely fast without having to abuse the shifter. lol

And I don't know about your WOTBOX... I see some bad things happening if you ever increase the power.

The WOTBOX is amazing. Doesn't hurt the tranny at all. It unloads the synchros and allows WOT shifting as fast as you can clutch and pull. I love it.

 

[AutoXRacer]

The WOTBOX is amazing. Doesn't hurt the tranny at all. It unloads the synchros and allows WOT shifting as fast as you can clutch and pull. I love it.

Not worried about the tranny...worried about the motor. lol

 

[AutoXRacer]

I just ordered my rxt and aluminum flywheel.....just got it and my floater ring is not installed on my flywheel....why?? Guess I will have to call Mcleod and ship it back to them and waste more time.

Are you referring to the gold ring...?

Who did you order it from?