Motor build advice

[Weou09]

I have come to a point in my research that I am having trouble finding the right parts. As of right now I am still in the research stage and have come to realization that I am going to build my own. I think my goals for the car make my situation a little unique. Right now I am looking to do a high compression build to make 600-650rwhp. My tuner/engine builder is leaning toward a 2618 piston. He did also mention upgrading the wrist pins to .200" wall made of tool steel. They are both confident of the stock crank being able to handle the power, as indicated in the past. Any part numbers or maybe a piston rod combo that fits that description? Only other thing internally I am needing are valve springs. Any part numbers or suggestions to run with the stock cams and say around 7k rpms?

Moving on the fuel side. I am going to run e85. Looking to go return with bosch 1000 injectors. I know this has been covered but is it possible to run one larger pump? Any advice here?

I think those questions should get this started and we can move onto other aspects of the build. Thanks in advance.

 

[JoshK]

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107642

There are much higher horsepower engines out there than you goals that do not have upgraded wrist pins. Also, the advantage of 2618 over 4032 alloy pistons is the longevity with detonation. It is almost impossible to detonate on E85 so I believe that the draw back of needing to let the engine "warm up" with a 2618 alloy piston isn't needed. You can run tighter clearances with a 4032 piston. If you are doing a stock crank build the upgraded wrist pins and 2618 alloy pistons are not need. This is of course my opinion from my research.

The valve springs will depend on your preference of retaining VCT or not.

 

[Weou09]

PM sent.

 

[Weou09]

I saw a time chain set with everything included for like 160 in an old(not that old) thread. Anyone got a link to the thread or a link to the set?
Edit: Nevermind I found it. Apparently it has jumped up 100 bucks in a few months.

 

[skwerl]

Sam had a couple sets for $175. I think I got his last one though. Next best bet would be to check with Tousley or Tasca.

 

[BruceH]

I have come to a point in my research that I am having trouble finding the right parts. As of right now I am still in the research stage and have come to realization that I am going to build my own. I think my goals for the car make my situation a little unique. Right now I am looking to do a high compression build to make 600-650rwhp. My tuner/engine builder is leaning toward a 2618 piston. He did also mention upgrading the wrist pins to .200" wall made of tool steel. They are both confident of the stock crank being able to handle the power, as indicated in the past. Any part numbers or maybe a piston rod combo that fits that description? Only other thing internally I am needing are valve springs. Any part numbers or suggestions to run with the stock cams and say around 7k rpms?

Moving on the fuel side. I am going to run e85. Looking to go return with bosch 1000 injectors. I know this has been covered but is it possible to run one larger pump? Any advice here?

I think those questions should get this started and we can move onto other aspects of the build. Thanks in advance.

Why go return? Is there a special reason?

You have lots of options for parts. If you want to keep the phasers active then use 26113 springs. If you are locking them out then I'd go with the Trick Flow springs. Just about any H beam rod with either new arp8740 or arp2000 new or used bolts should work. People reuse 8740 bolts but I wouldn't.

Lots of choices for pistons too. Manley makes skirt coated 2618 pistons for a reasonable price. Keep in mind that the required ptb clearance goes down with a skirt coating.

You can start getting an idea of parts and prices at www.modmaxracing.com They will usually cut you a deal if you buy all the parts from them.

You need a block too, is that right? You could easily go Big Bore with stock stroke for around $3200 in parts. 304 cubic inches and up to 12:1 compression.

 

[Weou09]

Why go return? Is there a special reason?

You have lots of options for parts. If you want to keep the phasers active then use 26113 springs. If you are locking them out then I'd go with the Trick Flow springs. Just about any H beam rod with either new arp8740 or arp2000 new or used bolts should work. People reuse 8740 bolts but I wouldn't.

Lots of choices for pistons too. Manley makes skirt coated 2618 pistons for a reasonable price. Keep in mind that the required ptb clearance goes down with a skirt coating.

You can start getting an idea of parts and prices at www.modmaxracing.com They will usually cut you a deal if you buy all the parts from them.

You need a block too, is that right? You could easily go Big Bore with stock stroke for around $3200 in parts. 304 cubic inches and up to 12:1 compression.

Was hoping you would chime in. Tuner prefers return and I got lucky with a few parts that made it not to much more to go return. I think I am going to get the mahle pistons similar to the ones you have and boss connecting rods. Do you know if the boss rods use the same bolts as a 4.6 rod? I can get arp 2000 bolts for under 100 for a 4.6 rod. Is there a reason you wouldn't use the trick flow springs without lockouts? I prefer to keep vct as I still drive the car on the street a good bit. No i do not need a block.

Most of my original questions have been answered. I am still having a little trouble with finding a tool steel wrist pin with a wall larger than .150. Any one know where I might find those in a .180 or .200?

 

[BruceH]

Was hoping you would chime in. Tuner prefers return and I got lucky with a few parts that made it not to much more to go return. I think I am going to get the mahle pistons similar to the ones you have and boss connecting rods. Do you know if the boss rods use the same bolts as a 4.6 rod? I can get arp 2000 bolts for under 100 for a 4.6 rod. Is there a reason you wouldn't use the trick flow springs without lockouts? I prefer to keep vct as I still drive the car on the street a good bit. No i do not need a block.

Most of my original questions have been answered. I am still having a little trouble with finding a tool steel wrist pin with a wall larger than .150. Any one know where I might find those in a .180 or .200?

I wonder why he prefers return? Returnless is nice for big injectors imo. You can command a lower delta pressure for normal driving and step it up for wot. With return you are stuck with whatever the regulator is set for.

FYI Mahle pistons are 4032 and require a tighter clearance than 2618. I know that in our messages you said your tuner didn't want tight clearances.

I've always used the included wrist pins. Some piston manufacturers have wrist pin upgrades available when you order the pistons. If you do go with Mahle then I'd suggest calling cnc motorsports in Brookings, SD. They have a direct line to Mahle and were the only place that could get me 4.6 3v flattops. I tried other suppliers but they just couldn't get them. CNC put me on hold, called Mahle, and said it would take about 3 weeks. IIRC that's where Fuel had to get his from too. Mahle doesn't make them anymore. I'd imagine they could get you the upgraded wrist pins as part of the piston order.

I don't know about the boss rod thread pitch. I do know they come with new bolts.

 

[Weou09]

I don't know why he does Bruce. Just left his shop a few minutes ago to give him some stuff fit my uncles cobra. He said he really thinks that probe pistons are underrated and has had good success with them in his shop car. Interestingly even more is my uncle works at an internal engine parts warehouse and can get the pistons in his shop car (which makes a touch under 1200hp) for $379.

 

[NotQuik]

What kind of compression are you shooting for?

I did as Bruce said and upgraded the wrist pins (.200) when ordering the pistons.

 

[Weou09]

11:1

 

[NotQuik]

Nice...quite a popular choice lately it seems!

 

[Weou09]

Nice...quite a popular choice lately it seems!

I figured more comp and timing will be more efficient than more boost. E85 is starting to become more available here so i figured i should take advantage.

 

[NotQuik]

Absolutely, I'll be going the same direction myself. Already got the pistons, crank, rods...

I think you're a little ways ahead of me though. I think ive finally chosen a turbo, but want to put on stock motor first before building it.

 

[Weou09]

Scored some aeromotive fuel rails for 100 bucks. Going to reorder the rods and 13 gt500 oil pump tomorrow. Car is going in the garage Sunday to start tearing it down.

 

[W3bb3r04]

Scored some aeromotive fuel rails for 100 bucks. Going to reorder the rods and 13 gt500 oil pump tomorrow. Car is going in the garage Sunday to start tearing it down.

You going to go through tousley? I'm going to order mine next friday

 

[Weou09]

Yea

 

[NotQuik]

Talk with Steve on here at Tasca Ford, he has his own vendor section on here now. He was Steve with Tousley and claims he will beat Tousley's price...I only mention this if you want to save a few bucks for the same part.

 

[JoshK]

If it is the steve that was at Tousley, then definetly talk to him. Great guy to deal with.

 

[Weou09]

Talk with Steve on here at Tasca Ford, he has his own vendor section on here now. He was Steve with Tousley and claims he will beat Tousley's price...I only mention this if you want to save a few bucks for the same part.

If it is the steve that was at Tousley, then definetly talk to him. Great guy to deal with.

Will do!