Motor is gone

[ChevyKiller]

yes they look fine, no leaks or anything. Not that I'd know what i was looknig at heh. Plus we didnt remove the heads

I lifted a head one time at irwindale and couldn't hear crap. Didn't know until they took the head off...

 

[94tbird]

I lifted a head one time at irwindale and couldn't hear crap. Didn't know until they took the head off...

With absolutely zero evidence to support this im gonig to say no to a lifted head. I think my problem is a valve hit a piston when the timing jumped 2 links on the chain

 

[ChevyKiller]

With absolutely zero evidence to support this im gonig to say no to a lifted head. I think my problem is a valve hit a piston when the timing jumped 2 links on the chain

Oh I wasn't saying you lifted a head - just giving you info. In that case, I also had a valve nick a piston and do a little damage to a cylinder. It was determined that it was repairable and I just needed to re-sleeve that cylinder, but I dumped the motor and went for the big bore at that time.

I think it is a valve exactly as you suspect.

 

[RRRoamer]

First, you have to include higher RPMs of such setups.

Actually, I talked about that in my original post. But consider that most folks with SC applications are not turning the engines faster (or much faster at any rate) than stock. The world of super high rpm is usually saved for race cars for max effort NA cars

Second, it is also likely a function of load which will "show" the harmonics of an engine

Good point. I wasn't thinking about the magnitude of the power pulses causing increased torsional vibration at the crank snout.

"Harmonics" is a way of saying that you have vibrations moving through the engine which can be constructive or destructive (that is the vibration from one source, piston, cam, etc... can either add to or subtract from the vibration from another component).

My background is BS Mechanical Engineering, so I am familiar with that term!

So, you have sustained higher RPM and increased amplitude of the harmonics to explain the correlation with higher power setups...

I would be willing to give you the increased amplitude of the harmonics, but not the "sustained higher RPM" part. Unless you are talking about road racing engines.

I would also be concerned about any aftermarket balancers, or for that mater, anything that significantly changes the harmonic vibrations signature of these engines. It is a simple fact that the factory has done more work analyzing and resolving harmonic issues that ANY aftermarket company every has, or can. And when you start talking crank A and rob B and piston C and ... on down the line, the Lord alone is going to know where your harmonic resonant points are or how well any damper will work to keep them under control.

 

[cekim]

I would be willing to give you the increased amplitude of the harmonics, but not the "sustained higher RPM" part. Unless you are talking about road racing engines.

Still talking drag engines here, but "sustained" is a relative term...

It is relative to how unstable the feedback system of the "N" components which are adding together ultimately becomes as to how long it would take before metallurgical failure... Granted an N/A setup will likely spend more time in a higher power-band attempting to use RPM to replace torque - but see comment on load frequency and amplitude are important here...

I would also be concerned about any aftermarket balancers, or for that mater, anything that significantly changes the harmonic vibrations signature of these engines. It is a simple fact that the factory has done more work analyzing and resolving harmonic issues that ANY aftermarket company every has, or can.

Agreed - which does does beg the question of any common thread WRT to flywheels/clutches as well...

Ford was clearly concerned about the driveshaft speed and its stabilitiy with the 6250 rev limit as well as the OSS limit in the PCM... Perhaps that was also factoring in something in the rotating assembly as well?

Dry sump time (ok, that might be an over-reaction... But an oil pressure resevior is not).

 

[94tbird]

oil pressure reservoir?

 

[white05gt]

I think he is talking about an accumulator but not sure.

 

[shatter]

With absolutely zero evidence to support this im gonig to say no to a lifted head. I think my problem is a valve hit a piston when the timing jumped 2 links on the chain

I am going to share some info that is substantially worthless to your condition and completely without value and yet somewhat related.

The stock timing gear on my 1969 302 engine has nylon teeth. I jumped on the throttle one time and tore some of the teeth off the gear and the engine jumped timing by quite a bit. Low and behold, I had valve vs. piston issues and toasted the motor. Ended up needing a 0.030 overbore on the motor and it had about 103,000 miles on it and had never been out of the car before that. The nylon teeth is a known weakness and I should have tore the front off the motor and replaced the timing chain setup but I didn't and paid the price.

So, if your timing jumped a bunch then you could definitely have valve/piston issues and would have the better part of the motor rebuild facing you. Sucks eggs! No idea what two links on the chain equals in timing though...

 

[SoundGuyDave]

oil pressure reservoir?

I'm pretty sure he's talking about a Canton Accusump...

They're pretty much standard kit for the corner-carving community, where g-induced and sustained high-rev induced oil starvation is a very clear and present danger, to coin a phrase. I had that happen to me going around a right-hand sweeper on street tires, and I nearly shat myself because of it. I slapped an Accusump on the car, and never looked back.

Mine is set up with an electric pressure-sense rig, and a half-second of key-on prior to start nicely pre-lubes the engine, bringing things up to around 30PSI before the motor even cranks. On track, if I starve the pickup, I don't even notice except for a sag on the gauge, but it will maintain a pretty steady 30PSI minimum for the time it takes two quarts to pump back into the oil gallery, which is around 12 seconds.

With the electric setup, it wouldn't be hard to wire a light and/or buzzer inline with the two electrical terminals (on/off valve and pressure sense relay) to trigger in the event of a pressure sag, and the few seconds you would have would be more than enough time to shut things down in a drag situation. On a road course, it's a little more difficult to judge, but my gauge has a low-pressure alarm function (beeps and flashes red)set to 25PSI, and if I hear that, I'll kill the ignition immediately, since that means that the bulk of the accumulator has been bled down, which indicates an issue somewhere. Knock wood, it's never gone off since I installed the Accusump.

 

[Quiksilver]

IMHO Option 1 and 2 are the way to go.

Things are crap till you figure them out and time passes. Sorting this problem out and getting back on top seem to be your new project.

Keep going! It will all work out in the end.

 

[akula52]

Accusump

Dave, That Accusump sounds interesting, can you give us a parts list and the location were you installed it? If you have any pics, that would be awesome. Thanks r/Rich

 

[krychrt]

Hey Ron this is your brothers friend mike that used to have the 93 fox...I was lucky enough to get a ride in your car and have to say just give it some time and see what you can figure out...it sux for now but imagine what it will be like when you get it back up and running again...if you need some help or an extra set of hands lemme know I just picked up an 06 Blk GT and live right around the corner from ya

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Dave, That Accusump sounds interesting, can you give use a parts list and the location were you installed it? If you have any pics, that would be awesome. Thanks r/Rich

Rich,

I'll get pix next time the fascia is off, but it's mounted behind the bumper beam. I tend to over-engineer, but... I fabricated a mounting plate to hold the two band clamps for the Accusump cylinder, then had that welded to the back side of the bumper beam. The three quart model will NOT fit in there, but the two quart will, although it is a bit tight.

2qt Accusump
Electric control valve
30PSI EPC valve
appropriate mounting hardware

All the above is from Canton

The only thing that remains is to plumb it into your oil system... Could be as simple as a sandwich adapter on the oil filter boss, or as complex as mine, with a remote-mounted filter, thermostat and oil cooler.

For the plumbing, I would look for a way into the oil system with a 1/2" NPT or -10AN fitting as a minimum size, anything smaller will just restrict flow too much, IMO. My whole oil system is plumbed in -10AN, so it was just a matter of adding a running tee fitting between the oil cooler and the block return line.

For the wiring, it's just a matter of pulling a key-on source with an inline 5A fuse.


When I get the fascia off (possibly next week), I'll take some pix and do a write-up and post it in the corner-carver's area.

 

[LAK3RS]

Option 1. IMO, since money isn't on your side, stick with numero uno....

 

[topbliss]

sounds like a broken lifter....

 

[Stoenr]

... Ive been shadowing some of the guys on forums, and having a blast doing it.....

I was doing that until I realized these guys meant business!
Now I just sit back and live through them, lol.
They got me off to a good start.

Took me 2 days to get through the thread, sorry bout the troubles.
Hope everything pans out for you Ron

 

[94tbird]

Hey Ron this is your brothers friend mike that used to have the 93 fox...I was lucky enough to get a ride in your car and have to say just give it some time and see what you can figure out...it sux for now but imagine what it will be like when you get it back up and running again...if you need some help or an extra set of hands lemme know I just picked up an 06 Blk GT and live right around the corner from ya

I appreciate it. im gonig to need all the help I can get

Rich,

I'll get pix next time the fascia is off, but it's mounted behind the bumper beam. I tend to over-engineer, but... I fabricated a mounting plate to hold the two band clamps for the Accusump cylinder, then had that welded to the back side of the bumper beam. The three quart model will NOT fit in there, but the two quart will, although it is a bit tight.

2qt Accusump
Electric control valve
30PSI EPC valve
appropriate mounting hardware

All the above is from Canton

The only thing that remains is to plumb it into your oil system... Could be as simple as a sandwich adapter on the oil filter boss, or as complex as mine, with a remote-mounted filter, thermostat and oil cooler.

For the plumbing, I would look for a way into the oil system with a 1/2" NPT or -10AN fitting as a minimum size, anything smaller will just restrict flow too much, IMO. My whole oil system is plumbed in -10AN, so it was just a matter of adding a running tee fitting between the oil cooler and the block return line.

For the wiring, it's just a matter of pulling a key-on source with an inline 5A fuse.


When I get the fascia off (possibly next week), I'll take some pix and do a write-up and post it in the corner-carver's area.

I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE this idea

I was doing that until I realized these guys meant business!
Now I just sit back and live through them, lol.
They got me off to a good start.

Took me 2 days to get through the thread, sorry bout the troubles.
Hope everything pans out for you Ron

I hear ya. The question is, tune back into a street cart with limited track time or go full blown race

 

[Fake_Snake]

hey ron Ill be up there tomarrow. im free saturday if you need help if your gonna be working on it.

 

[akula52]

Oil accumulator

Thanks Dave, we will be looking forward to those pics. Maybe you can start a new thread for that?

 

[KIMMER]

Yep, the accusumps are pretty nice and pretty much standard on the circle track cars around my house. It also might buy you a couple critical extra seconds to shut down if something goes south with the oil pump.