New Motor - Piston Ring Break-In/Seating???

[AutoXRacer]

Hey all, I have a 302E Stroker. What is the typical break-in period for piston rings?

I was told by the builder they should break-in at around 2,500 miles.
They are total seal stainless rings.

I currently have +4,000 miles on the motor and I am having to add oil every 3 days or so. The oil level on the dip stick actually lowers day to day.

Since initial start up I have been using Valvoline VR-1 10W-30 oil as instructed by builder. Is this oil maybe too slick to allow rings to seat?

Looking for some advice...
I have been talking to some shops that seems like delayed ring seat is a common issue.

At this point I am starting to worry...after investing $20K on this motor, I'm a little paranoid.

Engine does not smoke at any time...well only when going WOT after a long time (days) of just putting around. I am guessing oil is pooling in the intake manifold and once boost hits, all the oil gets shot into the cylinders.
Other than that, no smoke.

Thanks!!

 

[hamish]

Shit I've been told they'll be broken in on the dyno?
Anything related to crankcase ventilation? like breathers?

 

[AutoXRacer]

No breathers. Since day one its had the PCV system functional.

I'm guessing thats where the oil is going as when you remove the throttle body, the supercharge inlet has a little puddle of oil.

 

[ctt326]

No breathers. Since day one its had the PCV system functional.

I'm guessing thats where the oil is going as when you remove the throttle body, the supercharge inlet has a little puddle of oil.

So no catch cans?

Anyways, I broke mine in with the Conventional VR1 10-30 and now use the synthetic. IIRC I switched to synthetic once the tuning was completely done and that was around 250 miles.

I also have the same rings in mine.

 

[AutoXRacer]

So no catch cans?

Anyways, I broke mine in with the Conventional VR1 10-30 and now use the synthetic. IIRC I switched to synthetic once the tuning was completely done and that was around 250 miles.

I also have the same rings in mine.

And you have no oil consumption?
Can you change your oil and not touch it until the next interval?

 

[BruceH]

You have already passed the break in window. It's short. Conventional oil for break in always. Synthetic will not break a motor in unless you have a diamond hone finish but even then I still use conventional.

There are alot of different theories about break in but it needs to be done early. Hit the motor hard as soon as you can. You will feel it loosening up, just keep taking it higher and higher until it makes a smooth pull to redline. Avoid extended idling and no load situations. IMO a loaded dyno is best for break in.

Did you get a build sheet with motor specs?

 

[HIVOLTJ]

This ;

I've never built a modular but SBFs and Clevelands. Never had one burn oil or smoke other than initial startup.

If the rings don't seat the cylinders were not honed right. If they were going to they would have 3,900 miles ago. I'm not familiar with the rings used of modulars admittedly, but it sounds like they are blowing smoke up your ass

My new car has synthetic for the factory fill and not so much as a wisp of smoke in over 2,000 miles so far...

 

[Department Of Boost]

Stainless rings are very, very hard. They need to be broken in hard and fast. Like in the first couple of minutes.

If they are not broken in by now, they won't. Do a compression and leak down test to see where you are at.

 

[stkjock]

Your long past the break in point.


http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

 

[BruceH]

How much oil is it using Gerald?

 

[lethe]

There are alot of different theories about break in but it needs to be done early. Hit the motor hard as soon as you can. You will feel it loosening up, just keep taking it higher and higher until it makes a smooth pull to redline. Avoid extended idling and no load situations.

This is how i broke in the last motor i built and it's what i will do with my new build. Like it's been said in this thread already, you only have one chance to break the rings in properly. Hopefully that's not your case and it's something simple causing the oil loss.

 

[AutoXRacer]

How much oil is it using Gerald?

Hard to say, but I would have to estimate 0.5oz every three days; roughly 36-40 miles each day.

The builder told me to break it in nice and easy. To just drive it normal; no WOT.
Both engine builder and transmission manufacturer told me to break-in their parts the same way.
The engine did have quite a bit of idling and low load conditions initially; tuning issues.

So what happens if its not broken in by now? Will the motor always consume oil? I doesn't smoke, not at idle, not at startup, nor WOT (w/exception of initial WOT after a few days of putting around; get a quick small puff of smoke). I figure the puff of smoke is the oil pooled in the intake manifold getting burned.

Could this be a factor:
Could having the PCV system be causing the oil consumption?
Could there be a combination of high oil pressure and high vacuum to pull the oil from the PCV ports on the valve covers, thus sucking through the supercharger elbow, and getting consumed?

 

[lethe]

So what happens if its not broken in by now? Will the motor always consume oil?

If it is in fact a issue with the rings not seating properly then yes.

 

[BruceH]

You should put a catch can on it and see if the oil is going through the pcv. I'm running a pcv and don't consume oil. My catch can collects some but it's less than a few ounces every oil change. Not enough to notice at 2.5 to 3k intervals. I have a stock oil pump and use 5w-20 synthetic most of the time.

Have you added up how much oil is being used between changes? Do you have stock valve covers? I'm wondering because sometimes aftermarket ones don't have the pcv valve.

Do you have a sheet with the motor clearances?

 

[TheKurgan]

Bucking the trend as usual, but I put about 3000 break in miles on my 302E before it went on the dyno. It also used a little oil at first, but after 10,000 miles it's just fine and dandy and not using any oil. I don't have near as much blow-by oil in my catch can either, but I have a breather on the driver's side and the catch can on the other in which the out hose is open and routed down below the engine. Kind of like a breather I suppose but I did it that way to see how much the can would collect and like I said, it's next to nothing.

 

[01yellerCobra]

I used stainless rings for my motor. I talked to Total Seal and they said the rings need to be seated in the first 20 minutes. And they need to be loaded hard. I broke it in like I was going to drive it.

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[DiMora]

Driving a new engine gently is absolutely the worst way to break in an engine. As stated above, you have a limited window to allow the honing on the cylinder walls to wear with the piton rings so they mate correctly.

70% accelerations and decelerations and avoiding droning along at a constant speed are the keys. Many guys "drive it like they stole it" for 20 minutes then let the vehicle cool, then repeat.

On a Mustang...3rd gear accelerations and then decelerating using engine back pressure can help seat the rings rapidly.

If the consumption remains excessive and it is confirmed to be the rings, the only solution is to tear down the engine, re-hone the bores, and install new rings.

I have a buddy who has an AMG Mercedes in the shop right now getting a full engine rebuild for that very reason - gentle break-in (Mercedes recommended, LOL) failed to seat his rings. His SUV drinks a quart of oil every 1,000 miles.

 

[VTXFrank]

Do a compression and leak down test to see where you are at.

This.

I would also check your plugs for any oil fouling. I would very much recommend getting a catch can installed on the PCV side at least. If you're boosted, I'd get one for each side.

Drive that sucker like you stole it for a few days after doing the above. I've seen where rings that didn't seat due to initially the driver taking it easy on the new motor seal up with some aggressive driving and heat cycling the motor.

When I first bought my 2011 GT brand new, I drove that sucker hard. Which wasn't really needed as much since it was a factory engine that had already been load tested by Ford as I believe all of them are. But anyway, I still drove her hard for the first 500 miles or so. No long idling, especially not with the A/C on. I will make sure that for the 1st 500 miles, anytime I need to accelerate, I get the RPM's above 3500 so as to not lug the engine.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Bucking the trend as usual, but I put about 3000 break in miles on my 302E before it went on the dyno. It also used a little oil at first, but after 10,000 miles it's just fine and dandy and not using any oil. I don't have near as much blow-by oil in my catch can either, but I have a breather on the driver's side and the catch can on the other in which the out hose is open and routed down below the engine. Kind of like a breather I suppose but I did it that way to see how much the can would collect and like I said, it's next to nothing.

So your 302E did consume oil at first? How bad was it? How did you break-in the motor?
I truly hope I'm in the same situation where the engine seals up or stops consuming oil by 10K miles.

Bruce: I have Ford Racing valve covers. I do not know what PCV system is has as I did not install them; came with the long block.

Originally I was planning to put a breather/catch can setup on the motor, but the builder highly advised against it informing me that the PCV system would not pull oil into the intake. Well, it currently does and more than I care for. If I take the throttle body off, there is always a little pool of oil in the elbow where the throttle body bolts onto; the elbow is coated in oil.



Damn...you guys have officially freaked me out!!!! Tearing up the engine is not an option. sigh

OK, so plugs look very clean. No fouling!! If rings were not seated, would the plugs be wet or show signs of oil burning?
I am curious about doing a compression and leak down test. But I need to research how to do this properly.

This is depressing because I had lengthy conversations with the builder about break-in procedures.
A lot of people told me to break in the motor aggressively...just hammer the throttle. But the builder highly advised against it. Saying just drive her easy.

The other issue was that I could not drive the motor aggressively since the tune was not proven. Fueling, timing, etc were not dialed in; all I had was pretty much a start up tune to crank the engine and drive it easy. I did not go WOT for months later after the tune got dialed in. The motor did a lot of idling and easy driving sorting out the tune.

Break-in was as follows:

25 min initial start up where I just cranked the engine and let it run for 25 mins until the cooling fan turned on, then off.
Changed oil.
Drove it for 489 miles (easy driving due to tune).
Changed oil.
Drove it for 3,700 miles (dyno runs, lots of 3rd gear pulls, pretty much dialed in the tune). Also was informed by the builder that I should have never changed out the oil at 489 miles. They said I should have left the oil in and let it get dirty which is when the rings would have seated; then dumped it at 3,000 miles. I thought I was doing good by making sure to dump the oil at 500 miles to eliminate any metal in the oil.
Changed oil.
This is where we are today. Motor only has 4,000 miles since start up on December 23rd.

 

[TheKurgan]

So your 302E did consume oil at first? How bad was it? How did you break-in the motor?
I truly hope I'm in the same situation where the engine seals up or stops consuming oil by 10K miles.

Sounds like you followed JDM's instructions just like I did. It would use about a half of quart of oil every 500 miles gradually decreasing up to about 5000 miles. I used the same oil you did just like JDM said(VR1). I did not hammer it at all for the first 700 miles or so but did do alot of mild acceleration up to 4500 rpms or so and then let it decel. I also did this for the clutch. I wanted to break that in gently as well. My supercharger didn't go on the engine until 3000 miles and that's when it went on the dyno and the fun began. I think you will be fine and will see the oil consumption go down, but put a catch can on there and see what kind of blowby you are getting.