On3 Hotside and Coldside

[Jinx]

This will be a long time coming if I decide to go turbo. I may just take the easy route and go TVS, but I put forward a question for discussion.

I've seen on Anything Coyote on FB (granted most are idiots) that On3 Performance's twin turbo kit taking off and having a good reputation. Sai and Stretch seem to be the names that come to mind using these kits. And most are using the On3 branded components 100%.

To me hotside and coldside is hard to screw up in terms of making a kit. Fitment seems to be the major factor, not the grade of metal. On3 seems to be on point with coyotes on fitment form all that I have read (maybe some denting for clearancing).

But I still have a mental hold back in using Cheap Turbo Components (Turbos, Wastegates, and BOV) that the specs are hard to source and the real manufacturer. And with that said, I can understand the hold back others have with such a cheap kit and the bashing it receives.

The question I put before everyone....What if you use the hotside (cermaic coat) and coldside (powdercoat) and uses brands that will fit On3 (T4 flange, 2.5 outlet on hotside of turbo; 44mm Wastegates x2, and a 50mm BOV)?

Would this be a respectable build? Would it be dependable if you take the possibility of having subpar chinese components?

I've emailed On3 on them selling the hotside and coldside only and they said they would do it and the price was attractive from what I remember.

Reasons I like the On3:

-bolts to factory style midpipe (great for inspection using stock midpipe)
-retains the use of front sway bar
-preference on a twin setup versus a single
-no ground clearance issues (routing under the k-member)

So basically everything I like about the kit is solely from it pipe routing.

Im not looking for a 1000rwhp car. I'm thinking in terms of stock longblock (except with billet oil pump gear), aftermarket balancer, and 2C converter.

I'm curious of what people think of this idea and maybe it will spawn discussion from our turbo gurus.

 

[Ingwe]

Just out of interest why are you leaning towards a twin set up rather than a single set up? A single kit (depending on size) will support 1000rwhp easily which is more than the stock block will hold without reinforcement.

Seems from research i've done, a reasonable ar size of about .81 will spool wicked fast and be cheaper then buying 2 turbos. I decided on this route with S&H for my 07 http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112035 They have a prototype kit for the 11-14s which will support 1200rwhp with an 80mm. May be worth looking into especially as they're currently looking for automatic test cars at the moment. http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118261 If their 11-14 kit is anything like the 05-09 kit then the kit will retain the use of the front swaybar and have full ground clearance.

Bobby and Jeremy are some of the most knowledgeable guys on the forum when it comes to turbos and i'm sure they can answer any questions you may have. Jeremy is very familiar with the On3 kit for 05-09s as he used to run one with upgraded BOV, wastgate and turbo.

 

[Jinx]

Single Turbo kits don't mate to a Factory mid pipe for inspection and almost all route their downpipes under the K-member. My car is a DD and I never liked that routing. That is why I'm leaning towards a twin set up.

I'm not hung up on what a system can support, because I'll never get there. So I don't need a kit to support 1000 to 1200 rwhp. Finding a quality set of 60mm will do I think or something around about that size, to have similar spool time.

If Jeremy and Bobby (I like their work), can produce a kit that can mate to factory mid-pipe and not route under the k-member (which I doubt they will, because I doubt their kit is geared towards people that have inspection every year) I would be all over it.

The running idea is to fab up v-band connections on the stock cat section, On3 downpipe/mid-pipe flange, and on a set of cat deletes. To make swapping easy and headache free. Not to mention I can buy each component at separate times for us broke folk.

 

[Ingwe]

Single Turbo kits don't mate to a Factory mid pipe for inspection and almost all route their downpipes under the K-member. My car is a DD and I never liked that routing. That is why I'm leaning towards a twin set up.

Fair point on the mounting to the midpipe. Is your inspection for cats? Jeremy and Bobby fabbed up some hiflow metallic cats for one of their twin kits. Post 130 and 148 onwards. http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112146&page=4

I'm not hung up on what a system can support, because I'll never get there. So I don't need a kit to support 1000 to 1200 rwhp. Finding a quality set of 60mm will do I think or something around about that size, to have similar spool time.

I hear ya. I'm keeping mine on the stock block for now as well and will only look to push about 600rwhp at the end of the day as mine's a DD too. I decided on a .68 ar for the fastest spool of the 70mm that comes in the kit as i don't rev too high and not looking for max power.

If Jeremy and Bobby (I like their work), can produce a kit that can mate to factory mid-pipe and not route under the k-member (which I doubt they will, because I doubt their kit is geared towards people that have inspection every year) I would be all over it.

Their kit mounts the turbo(s) under the car next to the tranny but it doesn't route under the k-member so much as through/alongside it and that's the coldside only as the hotside merges straight to the turbos from the headers.

The running idea is to fab up v-band connections on the stock cat section, On3 downpipe/mid-pipe flange, and on a set of cat deletes. To make swapping easy and headache free. Not to mention I can buy each component at separate times for us broke folk.

Pretty sure S&H could custom fab the v-bands on that for you or alternatively just have the cutouts pre-cat. Ask the boys about pricing and their layaway option. I'm broke as hell too.

 

[2012Coyote]

I really like my On3 Kit. I'm on a stock long block and using all the components that came with it.

 

[Jinx]

My concern isn't that it won't work; my fear is Wastegate failure a couple of years down the road or the turbos not holding up to daily driving. It's been proven the kits make great power and works, but longevity is my concern.

Who tuned it?

 

[UltraKla$$ic]

His sig says "Tuned by Street Stangs"

 

[TW1NTRB0]

I have the On3 kit with Comp oil less turbos on it. I'm dropping the car off for a complete build this weekend. New trans, built motor, fuel system, and putting on the Armageddon twin kit. My schedule is busy but if you want to come buy and check out the kit I have no issue with that. You don't appear to be too far as I'm in the RTP/Brier Creek area of Raleigh/Durham. I may even be able to cut you a deal on a complete kit with some real nice turbos that were just sent in for a complete rebuild and billet center section upgrade <500 miles since I put them back on.....

 

[Jinx]

I have the On3 kit with Comp oil less turbos on it. I'm dropping the car off for a complete build this weekend. New trans, built motor, fuel system, and putting on the Armageddon twin kit. My schedule is busy but if you want to come buy and check out the kit I have no issue with that. You don't appear to be too far as I'm in the RTP/Brier Creek area of Raleigh/Durham. I may even be able to cut you a deal on a complete kit with some real nice turbos that were just sent in for a complete rebuild and billet center section upgrade <500 miles since I put them back on.....

Wow, oilless was the route I was thinking to avoid tapping oil pan. I'm not in position to buy as of yet (just got done buying brakes/suspension/wheels) but I'm sure I'll kick myself in the ass later for not scraping up the money to do so now.

What Comp turbo model did you go with and who tuned it? I regularly got o the Southpoint area and thats not too far at all. Who's doing all the work?

What is your total review of this setup in hind sight?

 

[TW1NTRB0]

Wow, oilless was the route I was thinking to avoid tapping oil pan. I'm not in position to buy as of yet (just got done buying brakes/suspension/wheels) but I'm sure I'll kick myself in the ass later for not scraping up the money to do so now.

What Comp turbo model did you go with and who tuned it? I regularly got o the Southpoint area and thats not too far at all. Who's doing all the work?

What is your total review of this setup in hind sight?

Sent you a PM in response. I usually take lunch in the Southpoint area. I had Aaron Lail at TruDyno Sports tune the car, Aaron is a genius when it comes to the Coyote platform. We tuned it on the stock MAF without any issues that some of the other tuners apparently have. He will be tuning my new build as well, hoping for well over 1000 on E85 on his very stingy Mustang Dyno. The oil-less turbos are nice as you do not have to screw with the oil pan. My kit will be sold with all of the hoses already tapped into and all of the necessary stuff to bolt it right on. I'll post pictures up later this week in a for sale ad. I have been overall mostly happy with the kit. It's not the best kit on the market but it doesn't cost $8k - $12k either. All the issues on mine have been sorted, I daily drove the car through the Summer without issue and I drive it in the cold as well almost daily. I'm dropping my car off on Sunday to Jeremiah Hussey, I was able to work out one crazy deal with him and Motiva Performance for basically the entire GT1000 setup that they made over 1400rwhp with for the SEMA show. He'll be building the motor, removing the On3 kit and installing the Armageddon twins, new trans, Fore fuel system, ID1300's, full Kooks exhaust and a ton of other shit for the drivetrain and whatnot. Parts are already ordered and most have arrived. This was best for me this time as I will be out of the country and I do not have the time to do another build right now, I'd love to get my hands dirty again but it's not in the cards right now.

My opinion is if you plan on staying in the 600 -700rwhp range this is a great kit and very reliable. I'm only changing my build as I'm not popping my hood up with $5k wheels and $20k in the drivetrain to an On3 kit. I want only the best of the best on this build that I have going. You only live once and I made the decision to go all out on a sick street car build. So I decided to drop the extra $10k+ and go all out.

 

[Greg Hazlett]

WOW! That is a heck of a transplant!

 

[TW1NTRB0]

Going big this time Greg!

 

[Greg Hazlett]

Glad to see it is working out for you, was wondering if you were getting a 15....

 

[TW1NTRB0]

Glad to see it is working out for you, was wondering if you were getting a 15....

That was the original plan but I decided to spend the money I had for a 15' and use it to build my dream car. All of the parts are ordered and I should have one bad ass Street car when I return in January. I like the 15' and was waiting on the GT350 details but I had to make a decision and I made my mind up about two weeks before they let out the info on the GT350 but I made the right choice and i don't feel like waiting forever for Ford to release their new FPC road racer.

 

[Greg Hazlett]

How much boost are you planning on making?

How did the new turbo's feel?

 

[TW1NTRB0]

18 - 21 is a guess but I'm not sure it just depends on how much it makes on E85 but I'd like to keep it under 20 if possible. I'll post a build thread soon, don't want to take over this thread too much. New turbos picked up power, something was off with the original ones. They spool a little quicker as well.