Phaser Limiter Failure. What Happened?

702GT

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The best solution might be to use cams that don't require phaser limiters to save you the headache (and a few $$$ too!). You'd also avoid narrowing the power band.

This isn't necessarily true. The max retard needed at WOT is roughly 9-12 degrees of cam angle. IMO, 12 degrees is probably overkill and doing nothing for you, may even hurt performance. 20 degree limiters hurt fuel efficiency for the sake of PTV safety. Although, I don't think I've ever read anyone having PTV issues without limiters running FRPP Hotrod cams. The 127020's are a touch more aggressive than the hotrods, but call for limiters. FRPP does not. Fine line? Dunno, I would say Comp prefers to be on the safe side. The big up-side to hotrods vs thumpr's, the LSA of hotrod cams is fairly boost friendly. Thumpr's have too much overlap, making it strictly a NA cam that feeds better on N2O. Although, IMO, if one were building a nitrous car, the stock cam is the better cam, up to a point. Once the shot is big enough, a blower/nitrous cam is the way to go.


As far as phaser limiters "failure by design" I can't comment on limiters used in revised phaser designs, as I haven't installed any. But I ran Comp limiters in my '08 phasers for 5 years with 127020's, never an issue. Made my share of passes on slicks, didn't grenade my phasers. I think it's shitty if Comp isn't updating their limiter design to share changes with updated phaser designs. I'd call and bitch, if I needed to run 'em again.
 

DiMora

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Do you have any pics of where they were installed on the cam sprocket? Here is where they belong...

3V_Limiter_Phaser_Precut__62645_zoom.png


Watch this video starting at 3:55. You can see that one position (where they have the limiter in the above picture) is tighter than the other positions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsoU2zEWTyE

I suspect you installed the limiter into one of the wider positions, and tension was insufficient and the little beastie flogged itself to death once the spring got loose due to insufficient tension.
 

AlbertD

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If I were to take a guess... It looked like the spring failed and ended up getting slammed repeatedly between the two blocks.

It is a good thing you got that junk out!
 

Scott

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Late to the party, but my experience with limiters was the same just not as much carnage. Ended up going with lockouts.

This installed picture was sent to Ford Racing Tech and they came back and said there were in the correct position.



What the limiters looked like after a few minutes in the car.

 

eighty6gt

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I brought it up with Lito that those springs looked like a shitty idea. He has had good luck, apparently. He uses 10 degree retard lockouts a lot, I think?? which have no springs.

I'm going to try the comp units. No moving parts. If the bolts are too short I'll deal with that, but I'm pretty sure Comp has addressed this in one way or another.
 

MassMustang

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Late to the party, but my experience with limiters was the same just not as much carnage. Ended up going with lockouts.

This installed picture was sent to Ford Racing Tech and they came back and said there were in the correct position.



What the limiters looked like after a few minutes in the car.


I checked with Livernois and they swear they haven't been prone to failures. I wonder if it's a bad batch of springs or excessive pressure for the springs? They cited they have to be in the notch with the least wiggle room (looks like what you noted above).
 

DiMora

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Late to the party, but my experience with limiters was the same just not as much carnage. Ended up going with lockouts.

This installed picture was sent to Ford Racing Tech and they came back and said there were in the correct position.



What the limiters looked like after a few minutes in the car.


Scott - did your spring(s) break? Is that a single spring broken in two that you are showing? How did you know? Did you detect a problem after a couple of minutes? Assuming it is a broken spring, did you call Livernois and if so, what was their response? What # valve springs were you running?
 

Scott

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Scott - did your spring(s) break? Is that a single spring broken in two that you are showing? How did you know? Did you detect a problem after a couple of minutes? Assuming it is a broken spring, did you call Livernois and if so, what was their response? What # valve springs were you running?

Yes, single spring broken in two. A lot of valve train noise at first start up of a new motor. Did not call Livernois, simple went with lockouts on the advise of my tuner.

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1676056&postcount=67

Heads are in this post. I got the valve spring specifications from Ford Racing and verified with Comp Camps via Brenspeed that the springs were compatible with my 127550 cams.

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1683682&postcount=72
 

sportinawoody

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ill find my dynograph and show you why I discontinued my comp cam limiters in favor of lockouts. all brand new parts, new motor , rebuilt blower etc,,, and my torque would take a dive thru the pull around 4500ish and the hp had to pull the power back up. it was all in the vct. locked out the cams and viola!!! problem solved
 

BadPiggy

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OP, why are you calling these limiters?
It is to my understanding that these are lockouts, not allowing the cam to move at all. The limiters are the round things bolted to the phasers by Comp Cams and allow the cams to move some.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

EDIT: never mind. I see these work differently than the true lockouts by Livernois & BBR.
 
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BruceH

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I've used both the Livernois and comp versions of limiters and not had issues with either. I like the Livernois better. I think part of the reason I never had issues was that I used 26113 springs and didn't go with a super high lift cam. I know that the limiters worked because I was doing a whole lot of data logging while determining where the best airflow for rpm was at different cam angles of retard. The cams were retarding as commanded.

It seems like people usually have issues with stiffer valve springs and higher lift cams. My current cam is over .500" lift so I locked out the phasers. It's also got a icl that is the same as a 127500 with 6 degrees of retard so I'm not losing much by having them locked out.
 

MassMustang

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OK, to avoid any paranoia or mechanical issues with the Livernois limiters, I have an opportunity to buy some Comp Cam limiters for $139 but they don't have the installation tools. Does anyone have a set of these tools you can lend me? I'd be interested in "renting" a valve spring too since I bought a set of high lift Comp Cam springs to go with the 127350 cams.

Anyone able to help me out?
 

Department Of Boost

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OK, to avoid any paranoia or mechanical issues with the Livernois limiters, I have an opportunity to buy some Comp Cam limiters for $139 but they don't have the installation tools. Does anyone have a set of these tools you can lend me? I'd be interested in "renting" a valve spring too since I bought a set of high lift Comp Cam springs to go with the 127350 cams.

Anyone able to help me out?

What do the tools look like/do?
 

BadPiggy

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OK, to avoid any paranoia or mechanical issues with the Livernois limiters, I have an opportunity to buy some Comp Cam limiters for $139 but they don't have the installation tools. Does anyone have a set of these tools you can lend me? I'd be interested in "renting" a valve spring too since I bought a set of high lift Comp Cam springs to go with the 127350 cams.

Anyone able to help me out?

You need more than a valve spring tool to change springs on mounted heads.

You don't really need springs with the 350 cam.

I have a set of the tools to install the limiters but I want them back and shipping is on you.
 
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