Phaser Limiter Failure. What Happened?

[Department Of Boost]

Pulled the limiters out of my 07' today. They're trashed. Only 3K miles on them. Only spins to 7K RPM.

Not sure what went wrong or what it was causing. It didn't notice any running issues. I wasn't looking for any though either. Anyway they ate themselves. Ay thoughts?

 

[AnotherS197GT]

That little spring looks too weak for the amount of pressure it has to deal with. The limiters themselves don't look horrible aside from the spring. My lockouts looked similar when I removed them after 15k miles. They're jiggling around in there, so I think they'll get a little beat up. Never understood why livernois uses those teeny weeny springs.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Is the spring even needed?

 

[AnotherS197GT]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I would imagine that as long as both pieces are in there, it wouldn't be a problem. It's not like they can flip around or anything like that.

 

[skwerl]

From what I recall, you need to put the limiter into the slot where it fits the tightest. I think all the slots look the same size but obviously there is some variance. I think I read about it in Scott's build thread. Looks like there was too much slop and the limiters got turned sideways.

 

[Department Of Boost]

From what I recall, you need to put the limiter into the slot where it fits the tightest. I think all the slots look the same size but obviously there is some variance. I think I read about it in Scott's build thread. Looks like there was too much slop and the limiters got turned sideways.

They were in there right. I even double checked before I pulled them. It's really obvious when they are in your hands which way they go.

 

[MassMustang]

Are there better/more reliable limiters than others? Comparing Livernois to Comp Cams limiters as an example?

 

[Department Of Boost]

I have no ideer.

 

[AnotherS197GT]

Comp limiters are a lot nicer than the livernois limiters. A little spendy though, about $200. They replace the faceplate on the phaser and have a limiter for each pocket on the phaser.

 

[702GT]

I used Comp Limiters for 5 years, never an issue. The Comp Limiters are stout. I got mine for $120 back in the day. $200 is still worth it. Just look at the difference between the two designs. One comes from a cam company, the other comes from.... what does livernois do??

 

[DiMora]

Wow. Just bought some myself. I read bad things about the Comp limiters failing; I am hoping it was installer error. Skwerl is right, they go in one particular opening in the cam phaser sprocket. Post up pics or your sprockets and mark which opening you installed them in and please let us know what Livernois says.

Why did you pull them with such low mileage?

 

[Department Of Boost]

Wow. Just bought some myself. I read bad things about the Comp limiters failing; I am hoping it was installer error. Skwerl is right, they go in one particular opening in the cam phaser sprocket. Post up pics or your sprockets and mark which opening you installed them in and please let us know what Livernois says.

Why did you pull them with such low mileage?

I'm not calling Livernois. I pulled them because the cams are getting locked.

I'm just curious what happened.

 

[retfr8flyr]

I wouldn't recommend the Comp limiters unless you get longer bolts to install them with. I had a very bad experience with them, due to using the stock bolts.

 

[MassMustang]

I wouldn't recommend the Comp limiters unless you get longer bolts to install them with. I had a very bad experience with them, due to using the stock bolts.

Can you give some details here? Are the FRPP cam phaser bolts longer than the OE Motorcraft bolts? Are you still using Comp Cams Phaser Limiters or something different such as Livernois?

I'm curious why Livernois uses the springs in the limiters and Comp Camps has solid blocks. From my basic understanding, they physical restrict the amount of oil allowed into the phasers inhibiting the timings. Springs seems to infer they can allow some variance in timing as opposed to being fixed.

Is there an advantage of one over the other?

Seems the springs failed allowing excessive movement and perhaps contaminants are what damaged the anodized finish.

 

[retfr8flyr]

Here is my experience with Comp cam phaser limiters. http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92049

 

[Department Of Boost]

Here is my experience with Comp cam phaser limiters. http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92049

Yuck!

Did you ever track down if it was due to the Comp limiters? Or was it maybe an install issue (bolts too short?)

 

[MassMustang]

Here is my experience with Comp cam phaser limiters. http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92049

Holy crap! Now I don't wanna swap anything out!

 

[retfr8flyr]

There have been several changes to the phasers over the years. Maybe the Comps will work fine on the early version but the later versions of the phasers have a different way the springs are held in place. Hell the tool that comes with the Comp's doesn't even work with the later phasers. The limiters are about 1/4 inch thick and that make the bolts that go through the gear and hold the springs 1/4 inch shorter. I had a pair of the newest phasers on mine and the limiters were properly installed.

What happened with mine is the trans didn't shift to third when it was supposed too, so I hit the rev limiter. I guess this extra load on the design was too much because the pass side phaser spring came loose and got caught in the chain. This caused a piece of the spring to exit the cam cover, making a nice hole and the cam jumped time so the valves contacted the pistons.

I think if I had longer bolts, to better anchor the springs, this wouldn't have happened but I am not sure. With my new engine build I went with the Livernois limiters and the same cam and valve train setup. I haven't had any problems with this setup.

 

[JeremyH]

On the other side of the coin I have 07+ phasers and been using the comp limiters since 2010 when I built the motor. I have had the valve covers off once since then (last year) for a cam swap and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. I also had reused the oem tty cam phaser bolts (shame on me) that whole time, but put in new ones when the new cams went in.

Goes without saying, but some guys have no issues with a particular mod while some have nothing but problems.

As for those limiters I don't have any experience with them and cant say that it might not be somewhat normal for the design. Was the tune trying to command past what they limit to at all?

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

The best solution might be to use cams that don't require phaser limiters to save you the headache (and a few $$$ too!). You'd also avoid narrowing the power band.