Please help me figure this out- video inside

Discussion in '2005+ Mustang GT 4.6L Tech' started by slackinoff, Feb 2, 2020.

  1. slackinoff

    slackinoff Senior Member S197 Team Member

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    As per my other thread - bad loping. This is a 2010 engine swapped into my 2008 Bullitt. I can not for the life of me figure this out. No codes ( besides my evap stuff) are getting throw.

    Open to any ideas. Thanks.

     
  2. Juice

    Juice forum member

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    First impression: it has cams.

    Do you have a scanner that can monitor live data? I would look at the STFTs first and see how close to Zero they are while idling.

    Take a video of a COLD start, after the car has sat for 8 hours or more. Put the camera behind the car so the exhaust can be heard in the vid. Start the recording, then go start the engine without touching the gas pedal. Let it run for 30 sec to 1 min.

    **I use Torque on my phone to monitor live data, emission readiness on my cars.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
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  3. slackinoff

    slackinoff Senior Member S197 Team Member

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    Hmmm. Ok, video here in a sec. About to go work on it. Thanks man. I have some more questions....brb

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  4. slackinoff

    slackinoff Senior Member S197 Team Member

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    Hey thanks so much for the help btw.

    Ok video is uploading.....I have an SCT x4. Can I get it to monitor what you were wanting to see? I will work on getting the app updated on my laptop as well as the device ( it's been a few years.....The cam journals on my old engine ate themselves a few years ago and I put the car away.) Just a few weeks ago I decided to put a pulled 2010 motor in it.....LQK - that huge junkyard said it was a stock gt motor, 40k miles. Guess it could have a cam? Wow that would be weird. Anyway, video coming soon.

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  5. slackinoff

    slackinoff Senior Member S197 Team Member

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    Video. Pls watch till end.

     
  6. slackinoff

    slackinoff Senior Member S197 Team Member

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    Ok here is the camshaft in the 2010 motor, in the car.

    20200202_101424.jpg

    Here is the camshaft in the original 2008 engine.

    20200202_101903.jpg

    They have different markings, but also the lobes are attached quite a bit different looking yea?

    What do yall think?
     
  7. 07 Boss

    07 Boss Senior Member

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    Definitely not stock cams. Ford cam lobes are powder cast and attached to the shaft. The one in your car was ground from a single billet piece.
     
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  8. slackinoff

    slackinoff Senior Member S197 Team Member

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    Well that's a hell of a surprise...I wonder what they are. Searching that stamp - P134147 doesn't bring anything up. Il rotate the engine over to see if I can find some more markings.

    Thank you 07 Boss
     
  9. 07 Boss

    07 Boss Senior Member

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    I did a brief search and came up with nothing either. I'm thinking all you need is to get a tune. A good dyno tuner should be able to dial those in without specs. You can always pull the cam and have it measured. Do you have the ECU from that car with the donor motor?
     
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  10. Midlife Crises

    Midlife Crises Member

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    Definitely not stock cams.
     
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  11. slackinoff

    slackinoff Senior Member S197 Team Member

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    Thanks everyone - I went back out and rotated the engine over to see if I could find and more markings. Just two paint marks and the springs have a yellow paint mark on them. Oh and the Injectors are purple??

    Any more guess?

    Thanks again. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

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  12. slackinoff

    slackinoff Senior Member S197 Team Member

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    One more of the cams[​IMG]

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  13. oldVOR

    oldVOR forum member

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    Check the ends of the camshaft, often times, this is where aftermarket manufacturers will stamp or laser engraved their info.
     
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  14. slackinoff

    slackinoff Senior Member S197 Team Member

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    Thanks for the idea. I looked really quick, but I needed to find a small mirror to get the right angle to view the end. Will try again tomorrow. Have to do superbowl party stuff the rest of today....ugh.

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  15. slackinoff

    slackinoff Senior Member S197 Team Member

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    I used a mirror to check the end. Nothing there.....I haven't looked at the drivers side cam at all. Guess I should do that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  16. Juice

    Juice forum member

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    Yes, you can view STFTs with the x4. But if it is loping due to cams, you will likely need to get it tuned.
     
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  17. slackinoff

    slackinoff Senior Member S197 Team Member

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    Yep, I just got off the phone with VMP a min ago and they are going to give me a tune revision for $100. I originally had them tune me back in 2017, which was on the original engine.
     
  18. eighty6gt

    eighty6gt forum member

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    heh what a great junkyard find, I guess VMP could also ID the purple nurple's. I don't remember my comp cams having those machining marks.
     
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  19. slackinoff

    slackinoff Senior Member S197 Team Member

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    I know right. I just refused to believe it.... I spent most of the weekend diagnosing what was wrong and the whole time I was thinking "there's just no way it's actually cammed". The odds....

    I did some research on the injectors, they are just factory 2010 injectors. They were purple that year.

    At the moment I am getting the SCT software updated on my computer and waiting for the VMP tuner to call /email me. I am pretty excited, although it is bitter sweet because I am going to sell the car....even though doing all of this has sort of re-kindled my love for the car. When the original engine blew up in 2017 (lost oil pressure, not tune related, engine had 200k on it) I just put the car away and lost all interest. Then a few weeks ago I just said fuck it, I am getting this thing back on the road......and I am finally almost there. It's been fun I have to admit, even though for literally years I have been procrastinating on it.
     
  20. GlassTop09

    GlassTop09 Member

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    Hi slackinoff,

    After seeing your posted video I would suggest to do the following...………………….
    1. Unless you have a datalog file specifically set up w\ all the other necessary PID's to monitor w\ your SCT X3\X4 tool, I would suggest to use a decent OBDII scan tool (that has the ability to view, record & playback live data AND will allow the selection of any specific PID's to use as a custom data set & access to the PCM's Mode 6 recorded system test data--such as the EVAP system leak test results) & set it up to monitor the necessary PID's thruout a full cold start from the time you hit the starter to full hot idle (these scan tools will allow you access to a lot more PID's as you really need to see more than just the STFT fuel trim data) then also look at the complete live scan data to see the 2 EVAP system PID's: EVAP PCT% (this PID reads the amount of CPV open signal commanded to the CPV by the PCM after engine ECT has exceeded 180*F) & EVAP_VP (this PID is the readout of the EVAP pressure sensor which shows the actual pressure\vacuum in EVAP system). This is important to see if the CPV is failed & is allowing the engine to pull a vacuum on the EVAP system w\ the CPV commanded closed causing a vacuum leak thru the EVAP system as under normal EVAP operation the EVAP CVS is open (CVS is only commanded closed when the PCM is running the leak tests on EVAP system after every KAM reset or on every cold start after a 6-8 hr cooldown & during cold start the PCM doesn't command the CPV open). Since you already see a DTC on the EVAP system you need to rectify that before going further, regardless of whether the engine has aftermarket or OEM cams installed. You can also record the data & play it back as well. A good general OBDII scan tool to have (if you don't already have 1 on hand) that can do all this that is not too expensive is a Foxwell NT301 for $65.95 on Amazon.
    Or as a quick test method you can detach the EVAP line from the CPV at the intake manifold then plug the manifold port off then restart car when cold to see if all gets better, if it does then you'll know if the EVAP failure you already know about is the culprit.....but I highly recommend to use a scan tool to monitor the PID's thru a cold start as you might find there are more issues causing the symptoms you're seeing\hearing than other wise noted.
    2. If you have access to (or know someone who has 1) a smoke leak detector\EVAP tester I'd run a smoke test on the entire intake system from the air tube after the MAF section on (which will include the TB, PCV system to cover engine CC, the intake manifold thru the cylinder heads, EVAP line from manifold to CPV & line from manifold thru the brake booster) to ensure that you don't have any vacuum leaks in any of these areas AND while you're at it smoke test the entire EVAP system too to find the rest of the issues as these cars are getting old so a LOT of this stuff is degrading & failing on them..... This (smoke testing) is the fastest & most thorough method to find most\all vacuum leaks regardless of where they are & is most effective when performed on a cold engine & morning's for EVAP systems w\ at least a 1\2 tank (higher is better) of gas to take up unnecessary air space to speed up the process.

    What all this sounds like to me on my initial analysis of your video is that you have a potential vacuum leak(s) present that is causing the engine to lean out (monitoring the STFT AND LTFT fuel trims...you need to look at both...they can give an indicator of unmetered air, but you also need to look at other PID's besides the FT's for the same potentials such as the O2 sensor data__signal voltage output PID's__once they come online when PCM goes into CL from OL__same for FT's__a badly fluctuating O2 sensor can set up this same stuff (doesn't have to be totally failed to cause issues...just slow\non-linear in response which WILL throw off the FT's as well) or the EVAP system for failures (another path for a potential vacuum leak that a lot of folks sometimes overlook when looking for vacuum leaks).

    I've wasted a LOT of time using other methods to check\find vacuum leaks (not that they don't work necessarily....they just aren't as foolproof & have more limitations vs a smoke leak detector test) that I would've found in just a few minutes using a smoke leak detector AND found leaks in places\areas that I would've never thought to look at\for.

    Since you have bought a used engine & installed it into a used vehicle I would highly recommend to get all this smoke tested to cover it all up front & save yourself a LOT of time & aggravation then go from there...……….

    FYI...........

    Hope this helps.