PLEASE HELP! Need ADVICE please!

Minervini1981

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Hello all. New to the forum so trying this out. Over the last few days on my 05 mustang gt I have installed the comp cam motha thumpr cams, comp cam phaser limiters, delete plates and bought new aftermarket cam phasers because the relector wheel was shot and spring was loose on mine. I also have it tuned from bama. So we got everything together and go to,come her up, well she idles very rough with some backfiring and dies. While it was idling for the few seconds I could also here some kind of ticking sound from the motor. The car turns over but won't fire up. It did one more time for 20 seconds or so with the same ticking , very rough low idling and backfire then shutdown.

I'm going to be pulling it back apart tommroow morning? Could this be a result of the timing jumping teeth? Please any and all advice is greatly appreciated!
i am located in Orlando FL if anyone is near that could help and want to earn some extra cash!
 
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Brick

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Went through a more difficult than expected cam install in my 2005 GT myself earlier this year, I feel your pain.

First, check for codes and make sure that Bama has all the correct information for your tune. Their tune is not going to be great by any means but it should at least run. My tune from them for my Hot Rod Cams is just "tolerable" at best, I plan to switch to Lito or Lund in the near future.

Second, if you have any doubt at all that the timing jumped a tooth, the front cover needs to come off and timing needs to be checked. I highly encourage getting rid of or returning the aftermarket phasers and going with a complete genuine FRPP timing kit, especially since you have a 2005. There have been updates to the phasers and tensioners since 2005 that are worth going that route for. Steve@Tasca is a vendor on this forum and will beat anybody's prices on it. Find the Ford Service Manual and follow the instructions to a "T" for disassembly and reassembly, label every bolt and part that comes off, and use correct torque sequences/values. Make sure all electrical plugs get plugged back in to the right connectors. Pay very special attention to the part numbers making sure that everything goes in the correct place. Tensioners and the tensioner arms look VERY similar but there are "lefts" and "rights", so double and triple check. The two idler pulleys on the front cover also look nearly identical and are the same way. Most importantly, make sure that all the timing marks are lined up correctly. It is a straightforward process but takes attention to detail. It's not necessary, but I even went so far on mine as to drop the oil pan and replace the gasket to make sure I got a good seal and no leaks. I also like Permatex "Right Stuff" over the usual Ultra Black RTV, just find it to be more user friendly.

It's also a good idea to "prime" the engine before you start it if you do all of that. It will help make sure the tensioners are pressurized so that you don't jump a tooth when you start it for the first time. There are multiple ways to go about priming it. Others I'm sure will disagree, but I think the easiest way is to fill it up with oil with the valve covers off, and then turn the engine over BY HAND until you can see the timing chains have no slack and that the valve train is getting lubricated.

While you have the front cover off, it's also a great time to upgrade to the 2013+ GT500 oil pump with billet backplate. Swap the pressure relief spring over from your OEM pump to keep the proper oil pressure. There are threads on this forum about this if you do a search. For less than $100 it's great insurance while you're already that far into the motor.

Also would be a good time to upgrade to the 2007+ coolant crossover and hose setup if you're interested. It doesn't do anything for performance but it sure makes the engine bay look nicer and frees up some space. Could also powder coat your timing cover to make it look a little nicer if you wanted.

Good luck.
 

07 Boss

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Hello all. New to the forum so trying this out. Over the last few days on my 05 mustang gt I have installed the comp cam motha thumpr cams, comp cam phaser limiters, delete plates and bought new aftermarket cam phasers because the relector wheel was shot and spring was loose on mine. I also have it tuned from bama. So we got everything together and go to,come her up, well she idles very rough with some backfiring and dies. While it was idling for the few seconds I could also here some kind of ticking sound from the motor. The car turns over but won't fire up. It did one more time for 20 seconds or so with the same ticking , very rough low idling and backfire then shutdown.

I'm going to be pulling it back apart tommroow morning? Could this be a result of the timing jumping teeth? Please any and all advice is greatly appreciated!
i am located in Orlando FL if anyone is near that could help and want to earn some extra cash!

First, check for codes and make sure that Bama has all the correct information for your tune. Their tune is not going to be great by any means but it should at least run. My tune from them for my Hot Rod Cams is just "tolerable" at best, I plan to switch to Lito or Lund in the near future.


Personally if you are pretty confident on the install I would get another tune. I mean not from Bama. They don't have the best rep with tuning past CAI's and gears. It is something I would do sooner than later so might as well try it out first. It might save you the time of tearing it all apart. Just saying.
 

Minervini1981

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So I got done tearing everything down today and unfortunately I have broken 4 rocker arms on one side and way out of timing. Chain definitely jumped teeth. I tried running a compression test to see if I bent any valves but I do not have the special ford adapter. I will be taken her to a shop Monday morning and let them time my car, replace the rockers and run a compression test to see if I did any more damage. So frustrating, we took our time with everything! Now I am just wondering how much they are going to charge me even with it tore all the way down already. Hopefully this saves some money! Trying to find a reputable shop that has experience on the 3V in the Orlando, FL area. I will keep updating. Thanks for the replies. I will also be getting a Dyno tuned after repaired. No more Bama!
 
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BruceH

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So I got done tearing everything down today and unfortunately I have broken 4 rocker arms on one side and way out of timing. Chain definitely jumped teeth. I tried running a compression test to see if I bent any valves but I do not have the special ford adapter. I will be taken her to a shop Monday morning and let them time my car, replace the rockers and run a compression test to see if I did any more damage. So frustrating, we took our time with everything! Now I am just wondering how much they are going to charge me even with it tore all the way down already. Hopefully this saves some money! Trying to find a reputable shop that has experience on the 3V in the Orlando, FL area. I will keep updating. Thanks for the replies. I will also be getting a Dyno tuned after repaired. No more Bama!

If you already have it torn down why not reassemble yourself? There isn't much to it at that point.

You can make an adapter for the compression from an old spark plug in a pinch.

It really sounds like one or both phasers were installed 180 degrees out. BTW once the motor turns over the timing marks will only line up once every 70 or so revolutions so it's really hard to tell if it was out of time or by how much upon disassembly.

Check out lito on this forum for a tune. His real name is Manuel Pazo at www.tudyno.com You won't find a better tuner anywhere.

Good luck with everything.
 

Minervini1981

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Bruce..I want to do it but with everything that has happen, I have no confidence. I searched everywhere on how to properly reset the timing from scratch but still confused. Should I replace all my rocker arms or will replacing the 4 that broke be OK?
 

BruceH

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It's all in here: http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=159&viewfile=Engine.pdf

Not sure how many I'd replace, it would depend on how the remaining ones looked. FRPP used to have complete sets for a good price.

I'm trying to think of a way 4 could suddenly break that doesn't involve piston to valve contact. Probably not possible. Did you check each one to see if it was fully seated after the cam swap? I do know someone who had two break for no reason, still don't know why.
 

Minervini1981

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Well I wish you knew a way! Lol. Woukd ease some frustration! How can I make an adapter with a spark plug to run the compression test? All of the other rockers looked alright. Bruce where are you located?
 
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BruceH

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Well I wish you knew a way! Lol. Woukd ease some frustration! How can I make an adapter with a spark plug to run the compression test? All of the other rockers looked alright. Bruce where are you located?

I'm in the other part of the county, Washington state.

You can remove the bottom of the plug body from the plug. Then tap the top of the bottom part to fit an adapter. I did it once to make a tool to pressurize the cylinder to keep the valves up when changing valve springs.
 

46addict

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Trying to find a reputable shop that has experience on the 3V in the Orlando, FL area. I will keep updating. Thanks for the replies. I will also be getting a Dyno tuned after repaired. No more Bama!

You are within an hour's drive from VMP Performance and Power by the Hour is a few hours south of you in Boynton Beach. Hope you get this all sorted out.
 

FastMike

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I ended up,with 8 bent valves. My car has been at the machine shop may couple weeks. Fast moving auto parts, great people. I also bought the whole timing kit bundle from tasca and I'm going to use the livernois limiters instead of comp cams. With the new cam phaser design the tool comp gives you doesn't work and info not want to risk trying to hold the spring while installing the comp limiters. im,anxious to get it all out back together Hopefully by this weekend.
 

stkjock

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Why do you have two screen names Mike?
 

skwerl

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I'm late on seeing this (due to the generic, nondescriptive thread title) but if you still need a good, honest shop you can call The Ford Shoppe in Maitland. Alan and Jesse are super talented and knowledgeable. 407-339-5585. They are the only ones I trust to work on my vehicles any more.
 

FastMike

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Thanks Skwerl, I will keep this in mind for the future.

Stkjock, that was an old account never used. Now that I am on here each day I wanted a different account. Thanks for all the help and advice. It,will be back together tommorow and starting it,up!
 

Wes06

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Old account made in sept?
Lol
Easily forgotten password eh
 

stkjock

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Thanks Skwerl, I will keep this in mind for the future.

Stkjock, that was an old account never used. Now that I am on here each day I wanted a different account. Thanks for all the help and advice. It,will be back together tommorow and starting it,up!

Old account? Come in dude.... Both at Sept 2016 sign ups
 

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