Post accident vibration

[Hawgman]

I'm guessing that the D/S is hollow? I ask because if mud were to somehow get into it you could get a vibe at different speeds.

But they tried a stock drive shaft in it and it still had the vibration.

I'm also wondering if a Bushing may have gotten cracked or torn somewhere in the suspension as to me the fact that you can put it in N and still have the vibe at speed makes me kind of think it is a suspension or wheel problem.

It's definitely a "rotational" issue. Still not really anything to suggest it is suspension.

 

[GI Joe]

Ok, so I fucked up the car a month or so ago. Long story short the road fell out from under me (literally). Car ended up in a sink hole full of water. It went in at about a 20 degree angle about to the middle of the doors. The road was dirt, so no hard or rigid surface leading in to the hole.

Got it pulled out, got the water sucked out of it, fired it up (which shocked the hell out of me) and drove it 300+ miles back home. On the way home I notice it has a vicious vibration that starts around 60mph. Gets worse as speed increases, and even worse on decel. Goes away around 58 on decel. Car was NOT pulled out by the rear end or axles. Was pulled out by the rear sway bar.

Took it to Ford (because it is an insurance job, and I know the service manager there, and it is a mod friendly dealer). Got it on a lift and start looking around under the car. You can see very clearly where the road ended (so to speak). Maybe about at the front of the trans pan or so.

Got all the interior replaced, seat motors and wiring, seat air bags, throttle pedal, SRS control boxes, SJB, and ABS control system. That is probably a little over board but wanted to replace anything electrical that might have gotton wet. Now chasing the vibration.

• Pulled all 4 wheels and checked balance and for a bent wheel.
• Driveshaft does not look like it even got wet, much less bent or touched in any way. Exhaust hangs lower than the driveshaft and it isn't even bent.
• Nothing bent as far as transmission mounts. Hell, they are cast so they wouldn't bend anyway, they would break.
• Trans pan is free of any scrapes or bends.
• Changed engine and transmission fluids. No contamination found.
• Pulled the rock cover off the front of the transmission, nothing up inside there.
• Checked the pinion angle, still at -2 which is where it has been for quite a while.
• Sub-frame, cross member, and motor mounts all check out fine.

One thing to note. While on the lift, noticed a puddle of fluid sitting in the left rear wheel. Looked as though it was coming from the axle seal. So the seal was replaced also. Initial thought was either mud impacted between the disc and the seal causing the leak, or the leak maybe caused by the 300+ mile drive home and vibration.

Car still vibrates BAD starting around 60mph. Put the car in neutral while at speed and the vibration is still there. The vibration does not seem to be RPM related as we have ran it up to higher RPM in lower gears at a lower speed and no vibration.

Pulled the single piece aluminum driveshaft out and put in the stock driveshaft. This seems to have changed the symptom. Now it starts the vibration earlier, and appears to decrease at around 70mph. Actually the exact quote from the service manager was "it goes away at 70". But since I was not there when they tested it, I will not be so bold as to say it actually goes away.

So they hook their EVA machine up to it and take it out for a drive and all it tells them is that it is drive line related (engine, trans, driveshaft, rear end).
Well, you can run the friggin thing up to 6k RPM in first and the vibration doesn't happen. They did say that me having two different wheel sizes jacks with their EVA machine so they are going to pull a set of 17s off of another car on the lot and put them on the rear in place of my 18s and drive it again.

They are now saying they think it is a transmission issue. I just ain't sold on that yet. Plus the fact that my insurance company certainly isn't going to be too hip to the idea of pulling the trans and sending it up to Level 10 to be repaired! To me, if it were transmission related it would have to be one of two things. Either the input shaft or the output shaft got tweaked somehow. If it were input shaft related, I would think that RPM would play in to the picture and it would do it at "X" RPM regardless of the vehicle speed. And since it does it at speed in neutral at 1k RPM, in my mind that rules that out. There is no evidence what so ever of anything that would have caused the output shaft to be tweaked. Also, I think if it were output shaft related, and as bad as the vibration is, that the rear seal would be leaking by now (just my opinion).

So... what the hell.... Any ideas?

well I did not realize you had a post on this when you pm'd me. After reading it all, I'd say its a few areas it could be. Tough without driving it but I'm ruling out rear stuff since it nosed in...so I'd say drive shaft, trasmission rear bushing broken ( oh yeas it will cause this) or a bent wheel,wheel balance, a bent spindle, or messed up wheel bearing. I dont know who did the wheel check but I'd try to find one of the shops that balances the wheels on the car and have the 2 front ones re checked. That will check three things...You wold be able to see a spindle problem, a bent wheel or runout on a rotor and a balance issue. Ruling that out I would then look to the tranny bushing and drive shaft. Have it checked by a different source. I mean think about it...It's speed related...
Dave

 

[05stroker]

Is the vib in the seat or stearing wheel or though out the car ?

 

[MrClean]

with the leaking rear end seal...could this be evidence that perhaps you have a bent rear axle? I know it doesn't really explain however the vibe going away with the stock ds above 70mph

Hawg,
When I had a vibe at 70 issue with the original stock DS, to diagnose where the vibe was actually coming from my dealership used a piece of equioment that had seeral vibration sensors with wires, that they attached to different parts of the driveline, and the wires led to a central "box" that rode in the cabin with the techs, as they drove, the vibrations would register on a screen, and if the range of vibrations for a certain probe increased proportionally to a greater degree than the others, then that part of the driveline is where the vibe originated from. Ask you dealer to call the service Mgr at McRee Ford in Dickinson, Tim Allen, at 281-337-1529, and ask him about it.
My is with rojizostang...something out of whack in the rear axle. Did you actually see the chain/rope ties to the sway bar, or did theymaybe tie it to the axle? If they in fact used the sway bar, could it have applied enough lateral force to bend the axle housing just enough to be the root cause of the vibes?

 

[Hawgman]

Is the vib in the seat or stearing wheel or though out the car ?

Definitely entire vehicle. Hell, the steering wheel is probably where it is felt the least.

Hawg,
When I had a vibe at 70 issue with the original stock DS, to diagnose where the vibe was actually coming from my dealership used a piece of equioment that had seeral vibration sensors with wires, that they attached to different parts of the driveline, and the wires led to a central "box" that rode in the cabin with the techs, as they drove, the vibrations would register on a screen, and if the range of vibrations for a certain probe increased proportionally to a greater degree than the others, then that part of the driveline is where the vibe originated from. Ask you dealer to call the service Mgr at McRee Ford in Dickinson, Tim Allen, at 281-337-1529, and ask him about it.

Yes, it is called an EVA. I mentioned it in my original post. They have had it in my car several times so far and every time it reports it is driveline related.

My is with rojizostang...something out of whack in the rear axle. Did you actually see the chain/rope ties to the sway bar, or did theymaybe tie it to the axle? If they in fact used the sway bar, could it have applied enough lateral force to bend the axle housing just enough to be the root cause of the vibes?

I did better than "actually see them", I am the one that hooked it up. And that part was easy enough to check. Just undid the bolts where the sway bar links bolt to the underside of the car and it made no difference. But for the rear sway bar to be able to move the rear axle, it would have to stretch the lower control arms. Don't really think that happened.

 

[MikeVistaBlue06]

Doc,

Have they put your car on a jig and tested it for alignment. I wonder if the rear axle is twisted so that it is slightly either / or \ with respect to the bottom plane of the car? With a limited slip, any "twist" like that would cause the back-end to hop.

My old truck has an LSD in it and everytime I turn a corner I can feel the backend hopping.

Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[travelers]

I would lean more towards the rear. Maybe a bent axle flange. Where did they hook up to pull it out?

 

[Hawgman]

Car was NOT pulled out by the rear end or axles. Was pulled out by the rear sway bar.

If they in fact used the sway bar...

I would lean more towards the rear. Maybe a bent axle flange. Where did they hook up to pull it out?

As stated a couple of times throughout the thread, it was pulled out by the rear sway bar.

If the rear end was out of alignment I don't really think the problem would be non existent up to a certain speed, then come in and stay there up to a different speed and then go away again.

 

[US-1]

Axle bearing.

 

[phatphil]

The car went in nose first, I'd be checking the struts and mounts, see if they've been pushed up bending the top mounts. Four wheel alignment ck. Frame could of gotten torqued also. I was going to suggest cking the balance tabs put on the al. d/s to see if they were knocked off, but you changed back to the 2 pc unit with similar results. Have you noticed anymore clearance at the back of your Saleen S/C, like the engine has been pushed forward or backward. Just scratching my head with thoughts. Hope you get it resolved.

 

[kevinatfms]

look at your front wheel bearings, i wrecked my 05 a few months ago and i had the same issue! i replaced both my front wheel bearings and it went away...

 

[Hawgman]

The car went in nose first, I'd be checking the struts and mounts, see if they've been pushed up bending the top mounts. Four wheel alignment ck. Frame could of gotten torqued also. I was going to suggest cking the balance tabs put on the al. d/s to see if they were knocked off, but you changed back to the 2 pc unit with similar results. Have you noticed anymore clearance at the back of your Saleen S/C, like the engine has been pushed forward or backward. Just scratching my head with thoughts. Hope you get it resolved.

I can't stress enough how much of a "no impact" incident this was. I was doing maybe 10mph when it happened and there were no contact points. Nothing in the front end is bent or out of whack. That has been checked, as well as the sub frame.

look at your front wheel bearings, i wrecked my 05 a few months ago and i had the same issue! i replaced both my front wheel bearings and it went away...

It makes the vibration with the suspension unloaded and the car on the lift. Front wheel bearings are out of the equation.

 

[Hawgman]

Well... still don't know exactly what it is, but we know what it isn't.

Isn't the motor, isn't the suspension, isn't the driveshaft, isn't the transmission.
Vibrates (more like tries to rattle your teeth out) above 60 driving on the road.
Vibrates above 60 driving on the road with a different driveshaft.
Vibrates simulating the same speed scenario with it on a lift.
DOES NOT vibrate simulating the same speed scenario with the driveline disconnected.

That means it is something in the rear end. Now just gotta figure out what.

 

[GI Joe]

its got to be a bent axle/wheel or some type run out back there

 

[Hawgman]

Not the wheels. Stated before that they put 4 different wheels on it for part of the testing.

Not feeling the bent axle scenario either. Didn't do anything to cause it to bend except lift it up off the ground at less than 10mph, then sit it back on the ground at whatever speed the wench on the flatbed pulls at.

Personally, i'm thinking something to do with the carrier or carrier bearings. But can't come up with any scenario with the accident that would have caused issue with them either. Unless it was the drastic instant temperature change from operating temp as a result of driving 300+ miles to being instantly in 40 or so degree water.

 

[tmcolegr]

Any chance the pinion or flange is bent?

 

[GI Joe]

Not the wheels. Stated before that they put 4 different wheels on it for part of the testing.

Not feeling the bent axle scenario either. Didn't do anything to cause it to bend except lift it up off the ground at less than 10mph, then sit it back on the ground at whatever speed the wench on the flatbed pulls at.

Personally, i'm thinking something to do with the carrier or carrier bearings. But can't come up with any scenario with the accident that would have caused issue with them either. Unless it was the drastic instant temperature change from operating temp as a result of driving 300+ miles to being instantly in 40 or so degree water.

GAAAAWD I know what you said...you also said it was too slow to hurt anything but something is FUGGGGGED UP..lol
my point is jack the rear start the bitch put in gear and go look at it for run out.

 

[Hawgman]

GAAAAWD I know what you said...you also said it was too slow to hurt anything but something is FUGGGGGED UP..lol
my point is jack the rear start the bitch put in gear and go look at it for run out.

Yea.. I suppose all the times it has been ran while up in the air and checked no one probably looked at that.

 

[thump_rrr]

I would start by screwing around with the pinion angle even though it hasn't changed.

 

[ZmanM3]

Could the UCA been slightly bent? Or maybe something in the rear end was damaged slightly. A baring somewhere is messed up.