purple ice

[rojizostang]

anyway.....since my other thread was moved to the non mustang media section, my conclusion of all that has transpired is as follows:

engine temp has little to no effect on ait2f's

the intercooler loop, at least the heat exchanger portion and the pump, are working well, but corresponding reductions in ait2f's aren't happening

purple ice doesn't help

if I want lower ait2f's, I need to upgrade the intake manifold/intercooler

while l like DOB's coyote intercooler, $2500 is more than I'm willing to shell out for my daily driver f150

 

[Pentalab]

Here is the thing: Until you exceed the capacity of your radiator and water pump a coolant additive CAN'T help you.

Your fan and t-stat will still activate at the same temperature. Thus you will run at the same temperature. The most an additive can do is alter the heat capacity of your coolant, meaning that your coolant can now take on more heat energy before the coolant temperature rises.

Which is cool, if your existing cooling system is already pushed to the max. And if the additive can alter the heat capacity of the coolant enough to make a significant difference.

You just nailed it. What does work at local stock car track, where NO T stat is used, is 100% distilled water + water wetter.

Water wetter / purple ice will prevent / minimize the formation of air bubbles, when approaching the boiling point. Air bubbles attached to the various surfaces will impede heat transfer. Put a pot of water on the stove, and crank the heat up. Just b4 it starts boiling, you will see bubbles forming on the bottom of the pot.

With a 50-50 water glycol mix....and (I think) aprx 10-15 psi pressure in the eng coolant loop, it won't boil till it hits 265 F. Part of the increase in the boiling point is the use of glycol, and part of the increase is the system is under a bit of pressure.

100% water will boil @ 212 F..and higher if under some pressure. At the top of mt everest, water boils @ 165F, due to the lower atmospheric pressure ( typ 5-6 psi...vs 14.5 psi @ sea level).

I'm told that some pro race teams will use still higher system pressures, so they can further increase the boiling point of the 100% water they use.

Then we see the real snake oil used, like evans eng coolant, et all, which is essentially 100% glycol. It's touted as raising the boiling point of the system loop to 300+ deg F. Sure it will raise the boiling point sky high.... flip side is it doesn't extract heat worth a damn. Then what happens is the CHTs (cyl head temps) will skyrocket. Even with a 190 F T stat and oem radiator setup, the 100% glycol won't extract enough heat, increasing cht's. The rads won't dump the heat cuz they have way less coolant temps going into them.

Ford spec'd a min and max range of glycol to be used in both the eng loop and any IC-HE loop....depending on local weather.

If your a hard core racer, sure, use 100% water + water wetter during the warmer temps....then switch to glycol- water mixture b4 winter sets in. I think it was kelly @ BMR that posted a pix of a fellow's car with PD blower, who had forgot to switch to the glycol-water mix..left it too late. Both the eng loop and the HE-IC loop froze solid, a real mess.

 

[CJ-]

When i replaced my Radiator, I poured in the Purple Ice before filling the rest with coolant, I noticed it takes alittle longer to warm up but that could be because before replacing the radiator, i had almost 100% water instead of coolant in my cooling system from having to refill the system so often because the radiator leak. Aside from that difference, the coolant temps are where they were before replacing the radiator.

 

[Jeepngli]

Ok, as it was said a few times, Even if the additive did increase cooling in the liquid mixture, your tstat is still going to open at whatever temp it is designed for because the additive will most likely itself not lower temps under the tstat temp. But in the case of a closed, non thermostat controlled system(such as the intercooler system on a supercharger setup, the additive should(if it really works) help lower the temp in that closed system. You could test it if you get the car up to temp from idle, measure the water temp, then add the additive, wait a while, then see if the temp drops. A lot of work for probably no result.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[Jeepngli]

If it does what it says, the ability of the additive to carry more heat away from the supercharger to the exchange should be seen. I'd stick a fan in from of the IC in both cases since that would simulate air passing through.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[rojizostang]

Well, I've been talking to the cooling expert via email from royal purple, and I invited him to look at this thread, in the event he wants to explain or defend any of their claims about the product.

We will see what happens, if he joins in. He's apparently an svt/cobra road racer

 

[Pentalab]

What's required is a coolant temp sensor in the HE-IC loop. Then monitor it on the aeroforce gauge..via the aux input on the aeroforce gauge. Then data log the entire mess.

The problem with the HE-IC loop is....it's one big loop. Even if the Purple ice did indeed extract more heat inside the IC, you would then have to dump that extra heat via the HE.

You could extract way more heat just by replacing the 50-50 mix...with 100% water. Now that would be a good test. A few have done just that..and typ see a few degs drop in IAT. Ok, at that point, then add the purple ice...then repeat the test, and see if any further improvement.

IMO, purple ice + 50-50 mix in the IC-HE loop is a wasted effort. Even redline sez improvements are bare minimal when using water wetter with any glycol-water mix.

 

[rojizostang]

What's required is a coolant temp sensor in the HE-IC loop. Then monitor it on the aeroforce gauge..via the aux input on the aeroforce gauge. Then data log the entire mess.

The problem with the HE-IC loop is....it's one big loop. Even if the Purple ice did indeed extract more heat inside the IC, you would then have to dump that extra heat via the HE.

You could extract way more heat just by replacing the 50-50 mix...with 100% water. Now that would be a good test. A few have done just that..and typ see a few degs drop in IAT. Ok, at that point, then add the purple ice...then repeat the test, and see if any further improvement.

IMO, purple ice + 50-50 mix in the IC-HE loop is a wasted effort. Even redline sez improvements are bare minimal when using water wetter with any glycol-water mix.

I agree with all that

But, as I explained to the rp rep, their site doesn't have a list of circumstances or conditions that would render purple ice ineffective. the implication is that it always helps, to some degree or another. well, if it is helping, it isn't measurable, in my application.

As I told him, the only way to account for an additive's effectiveness is for it to be introduced into an (every) existing system, where it is the only new modifier. If it makes a measurable difference in that scenario, then their claims would be supported, imho.

 

[Pentalab]

Another way to extract more heat in the IC is to use a bigger IC pump. Problem is... the HE has to be capable of dumping the extra heat.

AFAIK the only sure fire thing that works is 100% distilled water + water wetter /purple ice. On Redlines site, they depict the effectiveness of their water wetter..vs varying amounts of glycol used. Start adding glycol and the effectiveness of the water wetter /purple ice is rendered pretty much useless.

 

[Riptide]

I considered using 100% distilled water plus purple ice. I wasn't sure that the additive alone was going to be enough to protect against corrosion. There is a lot of talk out there and some of it seemed to shed a little doubt on that.

Since you are supposed to add more on a yearly basis to keep it working and the garage gets close to freezing during the winter. I decided to run some anti freeze in the system.

TBH since this stuff probably doesn't do much for your temps anyway it seems a lot of wringing of hands over nothing really.

 

[Pentalab]

I considered using 100% distilled water plus purple ice. I wasn't sure that the additive alone was going to be enough to protect against corrosion. There is a lot of talk out there and some of it seemed to shed a little doubt on that.

Since you are supposed to add more on a yearly basis to keep it working and the garage gets close to freezing during the winter. I decided to run some anti freeze in the system.

TBH since this stuff probably doesn't do much for your temps anyway it seems a lot of wringing of hands over nothing really.

I came across one 'independent lab test' that depicted RP purple ice didn't meet the corrosion nor electrolysis sae spec. I shoulda bookmarked the report for reference. I see in the FRPP whipple install manual they suggest to use TWO jugs of redline water wetter in the IC-HE loop, if 100% water used. Some will use water wetter + a corrosion inhibitor.

My guess is..there is probably not enough corrosion inhibitor in any of em...when used with 100% water. The 'fix' would be to either use additional water wetter /purple ice... or buy and add some corrosion inhibitor. The last thing anybody wants is corrosion inside an Al IC / HE.

If IATs are too high, find another way to reduce em, like a bigger HE, bigger pump, more air through the HE, hood vents, ceramic coated LT's, slightly less boost, water-meth injection, etc.

 

[rojizostang]

here's something the expert from rp told me.....

don't used distilled water! His claim is that it along with deionized water tend to pull minerals from the softer metals. Now, I have heard this about deionized water, but he's the first to tell me that distilled water would do the same. He asserts that bottle/filtered drinking water is best for automotive cooling systems.

Not sure what to think about that. I could post up some of the stuff in his emails, however there is a confidentiality clause on the bottom of each one. I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm just saying he's the first one I've ever heard say not to use distilled water.

 

[NUTCASE]

I always say to use DI water, but honestly I can't even tell you how many times I have put bottled drinking water from the store or even tap water in a cooling system and nothing has ever exploded on me. I have even used water from a garden hose in a jam one time LOL.

as far as everything else there is is not much more I can say without going all chemical engineer guy on here.

Any stipulation that an additive can lower a cooling system by X degrees is absurd. There are far to many factors to consider to make a promise like that. However as far as advertising on a bottle goes; the average joe is not accustomed to thinking in terms of thermal energy, the average joe understands degrees of temperature. Not putting anyone down, you can live your whole life not thinking about thermal energy and get buy just fine. But only thinking in degrees of temp won't pass muster when trying to alter complicated machines.

Also, is this rep able to explain exactly how an additive is supposed to make coolant temps maintain below the t-stat, or below the cooling fan setting in stopped traffic. You can raise heat capacity all day but you will still be limited by your t-stat and fan temp setting.

Like I have said though, if you have already pushed your cooling system to the max and are overheating, an additive that raises heat capacity enough to make a difference is a solution to consider.

 

[Riptide]

Tap water in hard water areas in particular can cause scaling which inhibits heat transfer.

DI water and to a lesser extent distilled can actually cause corrosion in the absence of an inhibitor. That is why you don't want to run straight water without adding any protection in.

 

[05stroker]

IF you run coolant, you have nothing to gain from these products. If you run water only, use Water Wetter.


End thread. Lol


I always use distilled water to fill my car. Just what I do. There are many who use tap water as well, there cars still run down the road as well. I feel this is something that is over thought some times. I run tap water in my truck all the time..

 

[Riptide]

Thing is if you read the product page you get the exact opposite impression. It should help with or without coolant in the system.

http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/purple-ice-radiator-coolant-additive/

Not denying what you are saying. But what is the average consumer supposed to think?

 

[Pentalab]

Tap water in hard water areas in particular can cause scaling which inhibits heat transfer.

DI water and to a lesser extent distilled can actually cause corrosion in the absence of an inhibitor. That is why you don't want to run straight water without adding any protection in.

If you ran straight tap water, you would still get corrosion. Once glycol is added to the mix, there is corrosion inhibitor's added in with the glycol.

Distilled water is just re-condensed steam. That is as pure as it gets.... vs hard tap /well water at the other extreme. De-ionized water is a chemical process, which is cheaper to implement vs distilled water.

The story I got was de-ionized water is ion depleted, and will attract the ions from surrounding metal surfaces.....and start eating metal....including stainless steel, aluminum and also copper.

1 gal jugs of distilled water are cheap at any grocery store. Distilled water is all that ever goes into a battery. At the telco I worked at for 34 years, we went through dozens of 5 gallon containers of distilled water, used for the strings of 400 lb batteries for the UPS supplies for the office. 24 x 400 lb batteries per string..and up to 12 strings in parallel. If I ever caught anybody using tap water, I'd put a boot up their ass. All 3 Local Ford dealers use distilled water in eng rads and also HE-IC loops. Tap water here is excellent.

Bottled water has additives in it...so the water...'tastes good'.

RP's site depicts a 350 ci eng with a 160 deg T stat. ( 160F imo, is way too low)

50-50 water glycol = 228 F
50-50 water glycol + purple ice = 222 F
100% water = 220 F
100% water + purple ice = 200 F

The above is verbatim as what's on redlines site. IE: both claim a 5-6 deg F redux if purple ice /water wetter added to a 50-50 mix. ( I saw no change, and nobody else does either)..and a massive 20 deg F redux if RP /redline added to 100% water. ( I have never tried 100% distilled water + RP /water wetter.... however I know several who have..and they see typ a 3 deg F redux.

......................................................................................................

Ok, I have an OEM 190F T stat on my 2010 GT with Roush M90 blower. Sitting in the drive way, eng on, idling, 75F outside day, I get the following. (eng coolant temps, as read on aeroforce gauges plugged into OBD port)

50-50 distilled water glycol = 194 F. Once temp gets to 204F... low speed fan kicks in and temps drop back down to 194 F, then the cycle repeats.

50-50 distilled water + 1 jug of redline water wetter.
194...rising to 204, then low speed fan kicks in.... drops back to 194 F, cycle repeats. Both my low and high speed fan thresholds can be independently set to anything I want via the SCT-X3 and VMP tune.

Driving around town, low speed fan never comes on, and temps sit around 198 F. Ditto on the hwy. Cyl head temps remained the same at aprx 208-210F My conclusion is water wetter does nothing. I also used a Fluke 62 point + shoot IR thermometer to take additional coolant temps in several places...water wetter did not decrease temps at all...with my 50-50 mix + 204 F low speed fan threshold.

Maybe I should re-run the test with the low speed fan threshold set as high as it will go, or perhaps temp disconnect the fan /pull fan fuse. The repeat..but using 100% water..take some readings..then add RP etc.

 

[rojizostang]

Thing is if you read the product page you get the exact opposite impression. It should help with or without coolant in the system.

http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/purple-ice-radiator-coolant-additive/

Not denying what you are saying. But what is the average consumer supposed to think?

thank you, my point exactly

there's not a long list of circumstances detailing when and why it won't help.

fact is, the rp rep told me he would have expected the addition of purple ice to reduce my coolant temps by 6* to 10*, by just adding it to the current factory coolant and system

if rp wants to market purple ice as a tool used to improve the cooling characteristics of pure water, or as a corrosion inhibitor or lubricant, fine. but it's primarily marketed as a tool to reduce temperatures, regardless of mix percentages. it may in a narrow set of circumstance reduce temps, but it should be a secondary marketing claim, rather than primary, if indeed it helps at all.

 

[NUTCASE]

Thing is marketing it as what it is (corrosion inhibitor, water additive, for racers) will significantly reduce their customer base. Lots of people who can't afford to legitimately mod their cars are reaching for any sub $100 mod with a fancy label and seemingly legit claims.

 

[NUTCASE]

http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/purple-ice-radiator-coolant-additive/

noticed:

Extensive testing confirms Purple Ice reduces coolant temperatures better than comparable products while providing extra corrosion protection. For example, the average operating temperature of a 350 c.i.d. V8 engine (equipped with 160˚ thermostat) when dyno-tested with different coolants are:

no detail given to radiator or coolant fan setting. Were they using an unshrouded clutch fan? Mabey if I have an older car with an unshrouded clutch fan this would help me?

Aerodynamic efficiency of our Ferrari 458 GT race car can be improved by selectively blanking the cooling airflow to the radiators. Since we have been running Purple Ice we have been able to operate with less airflow through our radiators reducing aerodynamic drag and still keep the engine well within operating parameters. We therefore believe that Purple Ice has improved the efficiency of our cars cooling system.
Ian Willis, Race Engineer
AIM Autosport

Thats a great story and a very intelligent way to use such a product. I just learned something I may apply in the future. But how does this apply to people who think (and the rep is telling) they can add this to a modern factory cooling system and will see a temperature drop?