Rear steer?

[michaelm811]

By the tittle, I'm not sure if it's actually a rear steer issue. But here we go. 08 GT 4.6 5 speed 110k. Owned car for a little over a year. I've been gathering suspension components for a complete rebuild. About 2 months ago I began to feel what I thought at the time was a brake locking up on a wet road surface. Kind of a sideways slip if you will. Didn't think much of it at the time but it has become more pronounced lately. When taking a right hand corner it feels like the back end shifts to the left a little. And the steering wheel is off center a few degrees. Then when I take a left hand corner it shifts back to the right and the steering wheel is back on center. Again, this feels like it is happening in the rear. I couldnt find any bushings or parts that seemed to be worn out. Since I had the parts already I installed the new lower control arms. This did nothing to correct the issue. I installed the adjustable panhard bar and this had no effect either. At this point I don't know what could cause this issue. Has anyone had a similar experience? Any suggestions?

 

[stkjock]

have you checked the UCA and those bushings? seems like the only thing left to verify

 

[michaelm811]

We'll I thought about it but couldn't see how it would affect the lateral movement like that.

 

[Juice]

If it is really an issue in the rear, i would look very closely at the lower control arms and panhard bar. Not just the bushings, but mounting points too. Upper arm cannot cause those symptoms.
The issue should be quite obvious judging by your steering wheel changing center after a turn.
It maybe a front suspension issue, but again, by the amount of change in steering wheel "straighf ahead" position, something is drastically wrong. I would not drive it like that.

 

[DieHarder]

You might want to check the lower u-joint that connects to the steering rack. Check steering arms and rod ends as well. Had to replace the entire lower section of the steering shaft on my son's 07. His symptoms were vague steering and wandering at speed. Surprised the heck out of me steering could get that bad. You could move the steering wheel an inch either way before the car would respond to input. Glad I found it before he went back to school. Had to educate him that "that's not normal."

 

[DieHarder]

How old are the front lower control (A) arms? I had very similar handling issues with my 06 where it felt like something in the rear was amiss (at speed and especially taking corners) but I could not find anything loose or worn in the rear end. I had already upgraded everything to poly over the last couple of years and used quality pieces so it was puzzling why the rear end felt loose.

Given my symptoms persisted I finally decided to change out the front A-arms w/GT500 OEM units. After I removed the previous units I found that both ball joints were worn out w/about 1/8" free play in both of them. This was a surprise as I had changed the previous OEM units out for new ones and added Moog ball joints to the A-arms when I installed them. Haven't been able to get it in for an alignment yet but will report if the handling issue is resolved or not.

 

[DieHarder]

Time frame for the old units was about 3 years on the car. Should have mentioned that in the text.

 

[michaelm811]

Diehard, as far as I know they are from the factory. I have the GT500 arms too but haven't changed those as of yet. I just couldn't imagine something in the front would make the car act that way. There is a new clunking on the left front now. I'll check that out this weekend.

 

[DieHarder]

Your case could be different. In my case I won't know until I can get the car in for an alignment however I can say that swapping out the A-arms for the GT500 units has changed the steering significantly (it's off a good amount meaning there is a difference between the old and new arms) and one of my steering arms (driver's side is loose) has to be replaced.

After I get the alignment/steering arm changed out I'll report back whether the car's cornering, steering and turn in has improved or not.

 

[DieHarder]

Alignment done... So replacing the front lower control (A-arms) made a world of difference in both straight line handling and cornering. Overall the car feels great again and is back to normal.

My recommendation is if the handling seems off but you can't find anything amiss (no play in the steering and everything in the rear end checks out) you may want to start looking at the front especially if it's been a few years since the lower control arms have been replaced. In my case I found that both of the ball joints were bad which surprised me immensely since I had replaced both lower A-arms only 3 years ago and added the heavy duty Moog ball joints before installation.

Give what I know now I'd go with the OEM GT500 arms. They're heavier than the stock arms and should hold up better over time.

If you're going to do this job (change out the lower A-arms) I'd recommend getting a couple of tools that'll make things go easier. 1) 18mm ratcheting wrench; 2) 3/8" breaker bar; 3) short 18mm socket). 4) 21mm ratcheting wrench. See my post in GT500 Lower Control Arms thread.

Tip: If your wheels look like they're leaning in too far after you install the new arms (especially if you're lowered) you can take a lot of the negative camber out by rotating the top of the strut mount 180 deg. Doing that alone resulted in a camber reading between .7/.8 for each side (just about perfect). I also had them replace an inner tie rod since I replaced the other side recently. Should have just changed out both at the same time. Tracks straight and true now. No issues at speed, cornering or turn-in.

 

[michaelm811]

That's good to hear Dieharder. I have not had time to do anymore investigating this weekend. Helping a friend wire his new shop. I have the GT500 LCAs but haven't installed them yet. Also have inner and outer tie rod ends. Hopefully I will get a chance to look further tomorrow. Thanks for the update.

 

[Norm Peterson]

one of my steering arms (driver's side is loose) has to be replaced.

I can't figure out what you're referring to there.

What I know as a steering arm is integral with the knuckle ("spindle") - it's what the outer tierod stud gets bolted into. For it to be loose doesn't make much sense.


Norm

 

[DieHarder]

I can't figure out what you're referring to there.

What I know as a steering arm is integral with the knuckle ("spindle") - it's what the outer tie rod stud gets bolted into. For it to be loose doesn't make much sense.


Norm

My bad...I meant inner tie rod. Both had developed quite a bit of play; it just felt like it wasn't really that precise anymore. I didn't have the right tools to replace it so I let an alignment shop do it. After what they charged me I probably could have bought the tools and done it myself (sans the alignment of course).

What slays me is I had a shop go completely through the entire front end just three years ago. They replaced the front LCA's; outer tie rods; new Roush springs; Bilstein B6 shocks; GT500 strut mounts. All of the joints including the ball joints were replaced w/Moog (w/grease fittings). Now, just three years later the front ball joints and inner tie rods are completely worn out. I don't track or abuse the car in any way. Just some med/high speed touring runs now and then. Miles driven about 5 - 7/yr. The roads aren't great where I live but they're certainly not that bad either. What gives? I know Moog is good stuff and I grease them regularly. Any ideas?

 

[Norm Peterson]

Only thing I can think of is if you do a lot of steering with the car at a full stop. Best to have the car rolling slowly.


Norm

 

[DieHarder]

Thanks, good thought... Actually no. I don't. I normally never turn the front wheels without the car moving. Well, on the bright side the steering is very precise now (actually on the stiff side but I'd rather have that vs the vague wandering/tracking I was experiencing). We'll see how long these GT500 LCA units last. I'll admit the ball joints on these suckers is heavy duty and very solid. A bit pricey at about $340 retail but they're real Ford OEM units. Even had the heat shield mounts so I got a set of those and mounted them up. Look great and hopefully help them last longer than the last set.

Since the only thing wrong with the old LCA's was the ball joints I'm going to take them back into the shop that sold them to me and see if they'll honor the Moog lifetime warranty (or not). I'm also thinking of removing all of the rubber bushings in both of them since I have a complete Prothane urethane bushing set for the entire car (including the front LCA's). Always been interested in seeing if handling would see an improvement over the stock arms. If I end up doing that I'll disassemble the arms; tear out the rubber and have the arms powder coated prior to reassembly. Salt really does a number on cars up here and I find that powder coating stands up pretty good and makes cleaning up really easy (via power washing) in the spring.

 

[Juice]

Ball joints seem to have a relatively short lifespan IMO. Play develops in about 40-50 k miles. My inner tierods were fine @100k, I replaced rack for other reasons.

 

[DieHarder]

Not sure on the full history of my car but I believe the LCA's & inner tie rods were original. LCA's lasted to about 130K and tie rods to ~160K. Steering felt good up to that point. So, the reason why I'm surprised that new LCA's/ball joints only lasted about 15K. Hopefully these last longer...

 

[Juice]

I got to 100k before I deemed ball joints needed replaced.

 

[DieHarder]

That's good to hear Dieharder. I have not had time to do anymore investigating this weekend. Helping a friend wire his new shop. I have the GT500 LCAs but haven't installed them yet. Also have inner and outer tie rod ends. Hopefully I will get a chance to look further tomorrow. Thanks for the update.

So, did you ever replace the A-arms (LCAs)?

 

[michaelm811]

I have been busy building my new shop and haven't had time to look at the front end until this weekend. I used the time to think long and hard about what is happening and what could cause it. After replacing the parts in the rear that I thought were the problem with no effect on it, I turned my attention to the front. I remembered the shop manager at my local shop telling me the mechanic that replaced the oil pan gasket had to drop the k member a little to get enough room . All the issues started not long after this. So I got the idea to check the k member bolts and they appeared to be loose by the witness marks around them. My son tried tightening them using a 1/2" drive wratchet but was unable to move them. I told him to get the torque wrench and check that they are to the right torque. He turned all four front bolts about 1 full turn before getting to 110ft/lbs . We lowered the car, took it for a test drive and BAM! Problem solved. No slippage, no rattling and everything is right with the world again. Never would I have thought that would be the issue. But then again, I guess I did. Lol