Return to idle issues with Lito Tune

[teeje]

I've been working with lito for awhile on getting this tune. The tune is great. Actually picked up a lot of HP from one tune to the other. AFR was on point even before getting logs with a wideband. Timings great WOT is great, etc. HOWEVER, we have been tackling return to idle issues for quite some time now. We've gotten very close but its still there. Sometimes it will bog down to about 370 rpms then jump back up to normal. Here are my engine modifications as well as exhaust
Jlt Series 3 CAI
Ford Performance Intake Manifold
Ford Performance Hotrod Cams
Cat Deletes with an XPIPE and two resonators
MSD BLaster Coils
New Motorcraft plugs put them in last summer
93 octane
Had the same issue with stock coils also
The idle does smell rich at idle sometimes but I think that just may be the nature of not having cats.
I have completely dissembled the throttle body and cleaned it with TB cleaner, cleaned the MAF with MAF cleaner, cleared the KAM, tried the idle re learn (unless I'm doing it wrong I don't see why that would help) Lito assured me I wouldn't have to do a relearn but I tried that before he told me it was pretty much irrelevant. I seem to only have return to idle issues when: (See below)

At idle if i barely tap throttle and it reaches about 1k-1100 rpm it will drop down to about 370 rpm and jump back up
When coming to a stop slowly in first fear or when pulling into the parking lot at my work I basically coast in 1st gear and when it revs down to about 1100rpm it keeps idling down to that 370-400 ranges and comes back up. Lito added air on the last tune and it helped some and its way harder to replicate on purpose at idle but its still there.
I sometimes have a sputter on cold start around 2-2500 rpm but thats here and there and its being taken care of. Im just worried about the return to idle

 

[RocketcarX]

I've been working with lito for awhile on getting this tune. The tune is great. Actually picked up a lot of HP from one tune to the other. AFR was on point even before getting logs with a wideband. Timings great WOT is great, etc. HOWEVER, we have been tackling return to idle issues for quite some time now. We've gotten very close but its still there. Sometimes it will bog down to about 370 rpms then jump back up to normal. Here are my engine modifications as well as exhaust
Jlt Series 3 CAI
Ford Performance Intake Manifold
Ford Performance Hotrod Cams
Cat Deletes with an XPIPE and two resonators
MSD BLaster Coils
New Motorcraft plugs put them in last summer
93 octane
Had the same issue with stock coils also
The idle does smell rich at idle sometimes but I think that just may be the nature of not having cats.
I have completely dissembled the throttle body and cleaned it with TB cleaner, cleaned the MAF with MAF cleaner, cleared the KAM, tried the idle re learn (unless I'm doing it wrong I don't see why that would help) Lito assured me I wouldn't have to do a relearn but I tried that before he told me it was pretty much irrelevant. I seem to only have return to idle issues when: (See below)

At idle if i barely tap throttle and it reaches about 1k-1100 rpm it will drop down to about 370 rpm and jump back up
When coming to a stop slowly in first fear or when pulling into the parking lot at my work I basically coast in 1st gear and when it revs down to about 1100rpm it keeps idling down to that 370-400 ranges and comes back up. Lito added air on the last tune and it helped some and its way harder to replicate on purpose at idle but its still there.
I sometimes have a sputter on cold start around 2-2500 rpm but thats here and there and its being taken care of. Im just worried about the return to idle

I just went through this with different cams but a similar set up. He hates my cams.
He got it livable and I let it go. I would say my tune is at about 90% as far as drivability goes.
The only time the car surges like you describe was when I would goose the pedal playing around. He slowed the idle decay to the point that it hangs for a moment instead of surging.
Rarely it will surge on its own and the car dies changing from reverse to drive or something like that.
My car was a manual car I changed to a 4r70w.

 

[teeje]

Yes Im hoping we can get this figured out. Its been a very long process

 

[RocketcarX]

Yes Im hoping we can get this figured out. Its been a very long process

Same. We’re still not done with mine. I’ve basically settled at this point. I’m not sure why it’s so hard to tune such an old platform with cams that have been around for a decade, but it is what it is I suppose. Today my wife took the car and it was dying every time she came to a stop. It will drive right for 2 or 3 days and then randomly start the surging and dying.
It’s difficult to catch with a datalog because the car doesn’t do it consistently and hooking up the laptop for every drive cycle is getting old.

 

[JeremyH]

Still have charge motion valves? Still running pcv and evap? If so take a look at them for carbon/gunk buildup/clean and or remove the valves.

 

[RocketcarX]

Still have charge motion valves? Still running pcv and evap? If so take a look at them for carbon/gunk buildup/clean and or remove the valves.

My car it is fully deleted, no IMRC, no EVAP, and I have a catch can on my PCV. It has great suction through the PCV hose and the valve cover was cleaned thoroughly when I did the cam swap earlier this year.
I have no erroneous codes or other indicators that the car has any issues mechanically.
Not to thread jack, just adding to the data here.

 

[Badd GT]

you guys ever tried doing the idle relearn with the a/c on?

 

[RocketcarX]

you guys ever tried doing the idle relearn with the a/c on?

I’ve not done any relearn procedures, I figured Lito would have told me to do one if nessesary.
What do I need to do?

 

[teeje]

Tried the idle re learn but I may or may not be doing it correctly. I have a FRPP intake manifold, and hotrod cams and a jlt series 3 as well as other mods but those are irrelevant at this point to my issue. What is this I hear about evap and pcv delete? what are the benefits and why remove the pcv valve? Where is this pc valve. Im pretty sure I know where its at if i looked but never though of it. I did all my mods myself so I know for a fact everything was done correctly but never though that a gunked up pcv could cause that issue. I guess it would make sense if its not allowing it to breathe properly. I thought there wasnt a pcv valve, just a breather to the valve cover..

 

[Badd GT]

I’ve not done any relearn procedures, I figured Lito would have told me to do one if nessesary.
What do I need to do?

I’d have to google it, but iirc you have to disconnect your battery for like 15 minutes, then reconnect battery, start your car and let it idle for like 5or 10 minutes and then turn your a/c on and let it idle for 5 or 10 minutes more. Don’t know if it will help, but sometimes it’s the simple things that get overlooked.

 

[Badd GT]

I just read that it’s in the owners manual to do after replacing battery so you should be able to see the procedure there

 

[RocketcarX]

Tried the idle re learn but I may or may not be doing it correctly. I have a FRPP intake manifold, and hotrod cams and a jlt series 3 as well as other mods but those are irrelevant at this point to my issue. What is this I hear about evap and pcv delete? what are the benefits and why remove the pcv valve? Where is this pc valve. Im pretty sure I know where its at if i looked but never though of it. I did all my mods myself so I know for a fact everything was done correctly but never though that a gunked up pcv could cause that issue. I guess it would make sense if its not allowing it to breathe properly. I thought there wasnt a pcv valve, just a breather to the valve cover..

My PCV is intact, I said I deleted the charge motion plates and the EVAP system. You def want to keep your PCV system in place for many reasons. The PCV valve is built into the driver side valve cover

 

[teeje]

My PCV is intact, I said I deleted the charge motion plates and the EVAP system. You def want to keep your PCV system in place for many reasons. The PCV valve is built into the driver side valve cover

Ill have to take a look and see if its clean

 

[Phil1098]

I had a return to idle issue too and had tried and checked everything I could. Got to the point of saying fuck it I'll just drive it. Then I had my airbag recall done. On the way home all was good. The Ford dealer had unhooked my battery while the airbag work was being done and its been fine ever since.

 

[teeje]

Well lito just sent me tune number 12 and I flashed it after work. I want able to replicate it..yet

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Pentalab]

With battery disconnected, you lose all your short and long term fuel trims. I had the battery disconnected for an hr, while doing some welding. A little rough to get it started, but all was well after a few miles. After that, starts asap, and never had an idle hunt issue. The oem idle was 600 rpm, in drive, with foot on brake. VMP tweaked it up to 750 rpm. With either 600 /750 idle. It has never deviated more than a few rpm, while taking rpm readings on my aeroforce gauges.

 

[RocketcarX]

With battery disconnected, you lose all your short and long term fuel trims. I had the battery disconnected for an hr, while doing some welding. A little rough to get it started, but all was well after a few miles. After that, starts asap, and never had an idle hunt issue. The oem idle was 600 rpm, in drive, with foot on brake. VMP tweaked it up to 750 rpm. With either 600 /750 idle. It has never deviated more than a few rpm, while taking rpm readings on my aeroforce gauges.

Wouldn't this be the same as clearing the KAM? I know when you flash the car everything gets cleared and reset, so maybe Lito never mentions needing to do it because it is basically happening after a reflash. I know this is the case when I flash a vehicle with EFI Live or HP Tuners.

 

[Mustang dog]

you guys ever tried doing the idle relearn with the a/c on?

I put a new maf sensor in my ( 07 never replaced) and clkeaned the TB, and finished with the relearn, and it's 95% gone on my Lito tune. I"ve heard the Maf sensor ,and TB hate oiled filters.

I did a nice 90 minute drive after the relearn.

 

[travelers]

I put a new maf sensor in my ( 07 never replaced) and clkeaned the TB, and finished with the relearn, and it's 95% gone on my Lito tune. I"ve heard the Maf sensor ,and TB hate oiled filters.

I did a nice 90 minute drive after the relearn.

On my '07 I used a dry filter on the CAI.

 

[46addict]

My car it is fully deleted, no IMRC, no EVAP, and I have a catch can on my PCV. It has great suction through the PCV hose and the valve cover was cleaned thoroughly when I did the cam swap earlier this year.
I have no erroneous codes or other indicators that the car has any issues mechanically.
Not to thread jack, just adding to the data here.

Just out of curiosity do you have to pass OBD inspection/emissions in your state?