Roush Trak Pak

[Sam Strano]

I see..so as far as their spring rates, they supposedly use their own valving in the Konis for their full coilover kits they sell; given that do you think their rate choices are more appropriate? The rates in my "Street" kit are 340/175 F/R. I was surprised to see that high of a front rate, but they seem to work well and the ride is very good (better than I was expecting, probably more of a testiment for the Konis than anything)..but I have nothing to compare it to other than when the car was bone stock.

Well, right there is my answer. 340/175, that's way, WAY out of whack. I found a 20% difference front to rear was too much for balance. Your front springs are stiffer than H&R Race which are way stiffer than any other street spring. Your rears are the softest of any rates, basically just what Steeda Sports are.

They don't revalve Koni's, so if the valving is not OTS (off the shelf), I'd be shocked (no pun intended). Further, of the "authorized service centers for Koni, I've not found one that hasn't screwed up--including different valving in a pair of front struts for a SN95 Bullitt. I have Koni do all my revalving when required.

 

[Sam Strano]

Whether or not Koni makes parts for KW or not isn't actually relevant. Because KW damping curves are nothing like Koni's. Further, as one who sells KW and Koni both and having used both (as well as others like Ohlins, AST, Penske, Bilstein, Tokico) I don't think Koni has anything to do with them--other than maybe just working as a sub contractor. The adjustment mechanisms are nothing a like. Koni doesn't use stainless material for bodies. The threaded collars are not Koni parts.

Koni uses a digressive philosophy of damping. KW's tend to be more linear across the board. That doesn't mean Koni might not make the KW for KW (I do not believe this to be the case), if so they are built entirely to KW spec, not Koni.

The fact there are no V2's for the S197 means nothing. There are other cars that have V1 and V3's available, but not V2 as well. Subaru, Honda, some Mazda's.... And fwiw, KW uses a 400 pound front spring in their kits with the rear listed as "progressive".

 

[GIG4FUN]

I bought the Rousch Stage II complete suspension kit for mine.

Have you considered it?

it comes with the front rear sway bars as well. It pulled the highest skidpad in the shot-outs of other kits in some magazine at the time I bought mine.

 

[Sam Strano]

Roush bars are solid... read HEAVY, way heavy...about 20 pounds heavier than my bars (and heavier than any bar that uses a hollow front too).

Skidpad numbers are frankly misleading. I can, and have, posted video's of me running on street legal tires pulling numbers way higher than 1g. I can even do it transitionally. But that's not indicative of anything but sticky tires. And Roush does use some specially developed tires on their cars, much like the Pirelli's that come on a 2010 Track Pack GT from Ford. Those 19"'ers are NOT like a normal P Zero.....

Yes, we all want grip, but grip itself is not hard to get. And the skidpad number on a bone stock GT isn't horrible. But the balance, the predictability, the ride, the overall driving performance can be improved greatly. In fact slalom testing is more proof of a well balanced car than skidpads are. Last I checked nobody drives in a 200' circle all day, every day. That's a measure of grip. If the grip isn't easily accessible, it's not useful. In fact if it came to it I'd drive a car with less (relatively less that is) grip that I could drive the crap out of than a car that will pull a higher number and wants to bite me in the ass and generally be fickle....

I'm not saying Roush stuff is terrible. I'd sooner use it than say, Saleen stuff. But realistically you can get equal or even better parts for equal, sometimes less money.

 

[ArizonaGT]

Good info and discussion up on here...subscribing!

 

[Random Asshole]

I like where this thread is heading. Coilovers are not god. Tuning ability is great, but I have a non-adj kit and I'm doing fine. More than fine, actually. With just eibach shocks, springs, and camber, I'm kicking major ass. Wheel-to-wheel guys have approached me and complimented on how my car "sets" in a turn. Not to say I'm going to keep those shocks forever.. What I'm sayin is that you and I should have the same springs if what I've heard so many times is correct.

I would look into getting camber adjustment and some better shocks (and some good tires if you already don't). If I remember correctly, Sam and some others are big on bars, but I personally haven't felt the need. (and yes, I have an adj front bar sitting and a rear bar on the shelf that I've tried) The points penalties are not worth it to me.

Without being scalded, are you sure you are not confusing "lots of lean" with understeer?

 

[fiverivers]

with track pak coil over Roush recomends to use their stage 2 bars which are no solid.

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

My suspension setup is specifically designed to support road course activities while allowing it to perform well as a daily driver. I'm very happy with how well the setup performs in both applications - almost feels as good as my dedicated track car, which is a modified Corvette C5. Once you identify your goals and develop a plan - the rest starts to fall into place. This is what I have:

• Vogtland 1.2" Sport Springs
• Maximum Motorsports Caster/Camber Plates
• Hotchkis Sport Sway Bars
• Koni Yellow Sport Adjustable Front & Rear Shocks and Struts
• Steeda X5 Ball Joint and Bumpsteer Kit
• CHE A-arm brace
• BMR LCA with poly bushings
• Steeda Adjustable UCA with Heavy Duty Mount
• Adjustable Sway Bar End Links
• Fays2 F2S Watts Link
• APR GTC-200 rear spoiler (installing it in April) - front spoiler already installed
• Camber set at -1.8 in the front

I've heard nothing but good about coilovers, but the question of which is better and what "you need" can be very subjective. If you think you found a good deal with the Roush Trak Pak - then go for it and let us know what you think once you get back on the track. I know I would like to hear about it.

 

[foolio2k4]

Regardless of whether of the roush track pak coils are better than the konis, the track pak are a much better buy over the regular konis after factoring in damper, springs, UM costs.

Also, Sam always talks about the Konis but whats the point if they have been on national backorder for months.

The coils provide much better flexibility than the konis. Theres so much that can be done with adj spring rate and ride height. Not to mention the Roush will last you much longer and are presumably lighter weight.

The Roush coils are a proven set with R&D. It wouldnt be featured on a prebuilt car if Roush didnt think it could handle the track.

 

[dkegel]

I don't feel that there is a pressing need for the X5's, the bumpsteer kit or the LCA brackets. In fact I do not have bumpsteer issues at all, and if you were to look at the tie-rods you'll see they are nice and level as are the control arms---unless you slam the car.

Sam, Just curious if you've tried the balljoints? They made a noticable difference in the way my car handled. I didn't have bumpsteer issues (the bumptsteer kit is really only needed if you use the balljoints) but I could tell the front rollcenter was out of whack without the joints. If your car truly is lowered 1.5" I think you would benefit from them.

Dave

 

[fhlh]

I like where this thread is heading.

Without being scalded, are you sure you are not confusing "lots of lean" with understeer?

Good point... not certain as I'm green when it comes to car setup.

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

"lots of lean" tells me you're still using the soft OEM sway bars. I could be wrong.

 

[fhlh]

My suspension setup is specifically designed to support road course activities while allowing it to perform well as a daily driver. I'm very happy with how well the setup performs in both applications - almost feels as good as my dedicated track car, which is a modified Corvette C5. Once you identify your goals and develop a plan - the rest starts to fall into place. This is what I have:

• Vogtland 1.2" Sport Springs
• Maximum Motorsports Caster/Camber Plates
• Hotchkis Sport Sway Bars
• Koni Yellow Sport Adjustable Front & Rear Shocks and Struts
• Steeda X5 Ball Joint and Bumpsteer Kit
• CHE A-arm brace
• BMR LCA with poly bushings
• Steeda Adjustable UCA with Heavy Duty Mount
• Adjustable Sway Bar End Links
• Fays2 F2S Watts Link
• APR GTC-200 rear spoiler (installing it in April) - front spoiler already installed.

I've heard nothing but good about coilovers, but the question of which is better and what "you need" can be very subjective. If you think you found a good deal with the Roush Trak Pak - then go for it and let us know what you think once you get back on the track. I know I would like to hear about it.

I want my car to be like yours
I want to be able to AutoX/DE the car without having to place it on a trailer behind my Ram to get too and from the track.

I am thinking the K.I.S.S. philosopy is the way to go to achive these goal.
The Roush Trak Pak is a decent deal, but it's probably more than I need/want.

I'll try this setup

• keep FRPP Springs
• replace dampners with Koni Sports
• install my adjustable UMI panhard
• sell my UMI relo brackets
• buy MM, Steeda, or J&M CC plates
• find a set of 18's to run 275/40's
• give a larger rear anti-rollbar a try.

That's just my thoughts after reading all the really good info my thread started.... love this site.

 

[dkegel]

If you want to save some money and don't need to go real radical on the camber, you can skip the CC plates. These cars have plenty of caster as-is and you can get between -1.25 and -1.5 degrees of camber with just the FRPP springs. If you decide you want to start running track day events with track tires, and want a lot more camber, then get the plates.

Dave

I want my car to be like yours


I'll try this setup

• keep FRPP Springs
• replace dampners with Koni Sports
• install my adjustable UMI panhard
• sell my UMI relo brackets
• buy MM, Steeda, or J&M CC plates
• find a set of 18's to run 275/40's
• give a larger rear anti-rollbar a try.

That's just my thoughts after reading all the really good info my thread started.... love this site.

 

[Sam Strano]

I like where this thread is heading. Coilovers are not god. Tuning ability is great, but I have a non-adj kit and I'm doing fine. More than fine, actually. With just eibach shocks, springs, and camber, I'm kicking major ass. Wheel-to-wheel guys have approached me and complimented on how my car "sets" in a turn. Not to say I'm going to keep those shocks forever.. What I'm sayin is that you and I should have the same springs if what I've heard so many times is correct.

I would look into getting camber adjustment and some better shocks (and some good tires if you already don't). If I remember correctly, Sam and some others are big on bars, but I personally haven't felt the need. (and yes, I have an adj front bar sitting and a rear bar on the shelf that I've tried) The points penalties are not worth it to me.

Without being scalded, are you sure you are not confusing "lots of lean" with understeer?

"Big bars"? No, not really, there are bigger bars for both ends... My front bar starts about 5% stiff and works up, the rear starts about 20% stiffer and works up. Far from huge and in fact smaller than Hotchkis, Hellwig, H&R, Steeda Comp rear. Same OD as Steeda front (and regular rear), Eibach.... but with less weight from being hollow and of course also adjustable at both ends too.

 

[Sam Strano]

Regardless of whether of the roush track pak coils are better than the konis, the track pak are a much better buy over the regular konis after factoring in damper, springs, UM costs.

Also, Sam always talks about the Konis but whats the point if they have been on national backorder for months.

The coils provide much better flexibility than the konis. Theres so much that can be done with adj spring rate and ride height. Not to mention the Roush will last you much longer and are presumably lighter weight.

The Roush coils are a proven set with R&D. It wouldnt be featured on a prebuilt car if Roush didnt think it could handle the track.

There other options... The Koni fronts have been on backorder due to an issue from an outside supplier. That's not normal. It sucks. What's the point? Well, to have dampers that work, work well, and have a killer warranty should you require it.

Now we've moved into fantasy land. Why would the Roush set last you much longer? There is much to be screwed up by ride height (many lower too much). What's not too much? About 1.5" max, and there are all sorts of springs that height and taller---ones we KNOW THE RATES OF. Let's stick to facts when possible. Further, let's say you want to change spring rates. Are the dampers capable range wise of damping a heavier spring rate? And how do you know what to change and how much if you don't know your baseline? That's rule #1 of testing, a baseline.

Roush cars are street car, not race cars. Again, don't think that it's the worst setup ever, never said that. You seem to think it's the best ever, based on what I'm not sure. Marketing it seems.

I compete in these cars. I've got photographic proof what what I can do with these cars. I've setup many cars that go really fast and win on various types tires too, not just R-comps. I'm not Jack Roush. Then again, it's not like he's doing the work himself. Furthermore there are those that think FRPP kits are the cat's ass because they are FORD parts... Well, the bars and spring are Eibach, and the dampers tuned by Dynamic (a shock company) and frankly the dampers SUCK. I'm not one for names, there have been some Koni's on some cars that I hated.... but not the case on this car.

And to top it off.... if you were truly worried about flexibility and cost. A set of Ground Controls added to Koni's comes to about $1240 at normal everyday pricing. You get your choice of rates, and heights, rebound damping adjustment *AND* a warranty on the dampers too. Sounds terrible. And just for giggles... Koni supplies Formula 1 teams, including McLaren.. there's my bit of propaganda.

 

[Sam Strano]

Sam, Just curious if you've tried the balljoints? They made a noticable difference in the way my car handled. I didn't have bumpsteer issues (the bumptsteer kit is really only needed if you use the balljoints) but I could tell the front rollcenter was out of whack without the joints. If your car truly is lowered 1.5" I think you would benefit from them.

Dave

First, not legal in the classes I compete in.

Second using the X5's moves the control arm down, which makes for more bumpsteer, which then makes the installation of a bumpsteer kit a really must do kind of thing (even Steeda says that). Basically using them makes for more bumpsteer, and they then sell you a solution (or I can, I'm a Steeda dealer) for that change.

Third, lowering the RC doesn't bother me, as the rear is also lowered, and it's very easy to balance the car with appropriate swaybars (something you don't have). In your case, having the X5's would help because it helps the RC height some.

I don't think they are terrible... I just like to spend my money, and help my customers spend money on the stuff that helps most first. I'm not a smoke-blower, doing that gets folks like me in trouble because eventually someone will catch you double speaking. I sell every Steeda parts Steeda makes. I'm a Maximum Motorsports dealer too. And I my own stuff as well as most every other commonly available thing around.

In the end, we're all in business and all want business from you guys. I'm not a conglomerate, just a guy doing what I love. I make it my business to carry a variety of parts, and where I deem it wise, to make my own (rare, lots of good stuff around). I don't cater to one brand unless I've found that brand and part has a particular advantage ... then that's what I recommend. It's served me well over the years. Pisses a few of my vendors off because they want me to toe the line.

 

[Sam Strano]

If you want to save some money and don't need to go real radical on the camber, you can skip the CC plates. These cars have plenty of caster as-is and you can get between -1.25 and -1.5 degrees of camber with just the FRPP springs. If you decide you want to start running track day events with track tires, and want a lot more camber, then get the plates.

Dave

Agreed on the camber. Only two things to consider.

If you are ripping stuff apart to change dampers, the CC plate or HD mounts are right there and if you had them, you don't have to tear into the car yet again down the road to install them.

And the stock Ford mounts are the most durable things. The more you take them apart, the more prone to breaking they are. Even broken the work. The car just makes some noise and the steering gets a little sticky feeling. Those issues are resolved with a different upper mount.

My car has Steeda HD mounts. The Shelby GT I autox has stock mounts (has to by rule, can't change them).

 

[GIG4FUN]

First, not legal in the classes I compete in.

Second using the X5's moves the control arm down, which makes for more bumpsteer, which then makes the installation of a bumpsteer kit a really must do kind of thing (even Steeda says that). Basically using them makes for more bumpsteer, and they then sell you a solution (or I can, I'm a Steeda dealer) for that change.

Third, lowering the RC doesn't bother me, as the rear is also lowered, and it's very easy to balance the car with appropriate swaybars (something you don't have). In your case, having the X5's would help because it helps the RC height some.

I don't think they are terrible... I just like to spend my money, and help my customers spend money on the stuff that helps most first. I'm not a smoke-blower, doing that gets folks like me in trouble because eventually someone will catch you double speaking. I sell every Steeda parts Steeda makes. I'm a Maximum Motorsports dealer too. And I my own stuff as well as most every other commonly available thing around.

In the end, we're all in business and all want business from you guys. I'm not a conglomerate, just a guy doing what I love. I make it my business to carry a variety of parts, and where I deem it wise, to make my own (rare, lots of good stuff around). I don't cater to one brand unless I've found that brand and part has a particular advantage ... then that's what I recommend. It's served me well over the years. Pisses a few of my vendors off because they want me to toe the line.

I am a moderator here. I suggest you speak to "Kimmer" the site owner. Please discuss being a vendor on our forum. It sounds like it could be of mutual benefit!

http://s197forum.com/forum/member.php?u=1


gig

 

[Sam Strano]

User name Kimmer?

I'll do that. Forums are tough, I tend to toe-dip (admittedly) to see if they are worth being on, both as a gearhead and for business. This site seems to be one of better ones for good tech talk, questions and debate.