S197 Mustang in SCCA Solo: STX vs STU vs ESP?

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Don't look now folks, but tirerack has 285/35/18 RS3's for $159...maybe if enough of us buy them we'll get a wider tire allowance.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...l=Blackwall&partnum=835WR8Z222XLOLD&tab=Sizes

I got a set, but I need new tires anyway. They'll get used one way or another.

There are 3 entries for this RS-3 in 285/35/18 via our TR wholesale account. This $159 price is for a 2009 production batch. There are 2 newer batches available, but not on closeout. Still, that is a helluva buy!

 

[csamsh]

There are 3 entries for this RS-3 in 285/35/18 via our TR wholesale account. This $159 price is for a 2009 production batch. There are 2 newer batches available, but not on closeout. Still, that is a helluva buy!

Yeah the latest entry is for the 200 treadwear RS3's. Interesting how, after 4 years of this tire being out, Hankook "magically figures out" that the RS3 is really a 200TW, and not 140TW, just 2 weeks after the SCCA Street Category is proposed? Coincidences...nothing fishy here.

Makes you wonder what treadwear even means.

 

[Whiskey11]

Yeah the latest entry is for the 200 treadwear RS3's. Interesting how, after 4 years of this tire being out, Hankook "magically figures out" that the RS3 is really a 200TW, and not 140TW, just 2 weeks after the SCCA Street Category is proposed? Coincidences...nothing fishy here.

Makes you wonder what treadwear even means.

Treadwear is supposed to indicate roughly 7500 miles of driving per 100 treadwear. A 200 treadwear tire is supposed to be 15000 miles of driving. I think, had my Star Specs not been run in autocross, that I could have easily achieved that and who knows, I still might (they are at 4/32nd right now).

I think the Hankook decision has to do with the combined decision of the SCCA and the fact that a ton of other sanctioning bodies use 200 treadwear and NOT 140 treadwear as their cutoff line. Like, Lemons, Good Guys, etc. Supposedly the tread compound hasn't changed any so I think Hankook was a bit "lazy" when they made the tires and went for the minimum rather than actually testing them.

 

[brdollmeyer]

It's explained in the following link by Chris Harvey of the TireRack. http://www.roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?t=43987&highlight=Hankook+RS3

I'm sure they knew it was a 200tw tire from the beginning, but stating it would have cost them some SCCA sales for sure. Everyone was looking for a 140tw.

 

[csamsh]

Treadwear is supposed to indicate roughly 7500 miles of driving per 100 treadwear. A 200 treadwear tire is supposed to be 15000 miles of driving. I think, had my Star Specs not been run in autocross, that I could have easily achieved that and who knows, I still might (they are at 4/32nd right now).

I think the Hankook decision has to do with the combined decision of the SCCA and the fact that a ton of other sanctioning bodies use 200 treadwear and NOT 140 treadwear as their cutoff line. Like, Lemons, Good Guys, etc. Supposedly the tread compound hasn't changed any so I think Hankook was a bit "lazy" when they made the tires and went for the minimum rather than actually testing them.

It's explained in the following link by Chris Harvey of the TireRack. http://www.roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?t=43987&highlight=Hankook+RS3

I'm sure they knew it was a 200tw tire from the beginning, but stating it would have cost them some SCCA sales for sure. Everyone was looking for a 140tw.

Yeah, me saying I don't know what it means anymore was a jest aimed at the seeming arbitrary nature of a lot of tire ratings. It's stuff like this that makes me think I'm right.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/June%20SEB%20FasTrack%20Minutes.pdf

Highlights:

• Mustang to STU.
• ST and SP get rear axle covers and Watts allowances.
• C5 Vette to STU also!?!

The first two points are a great idea, that last one is a massive screw-up. I've raced in C5 Corvettes and they are in NO WAY ON PAR with a Mustang or the rest of STU. I'd take one of these over any other STU candidate in a heartbeat, if I was trying to win.

This is "out for comment" but these are the recommendations to the BOD. So let's write those letters... Just say NO to C5 Corvettes in STU!

Here's my letter, SEB Letter Tracking Number #11915:

Thanks to the STAC for proposing the move of the S197 Mustang out of STX and into STU. The bump up in tire size (from 265 to 295mm) after this class change is a much needed move. Of course, these heavy solid axle cars need MORE than a 285mm, so we'll be asking for that after this move is official. Also, the long overdue "watts link" updates"are a much needed move (if a bit too late - I still think the SPAC *sshats ruled poorly on this last December). These are steps in the right direction and should encourage the vast numbers of S197 Mustang owners to try STU...

Well, until you dropped the C5 Bomb.

Seriously - adding C5 Corvette into STU - what are you guys smoking???

Trying to compare the C5 Corvette to the McStrut AWD and RWD solid axle cars in STU is a *stretch*. The C5 Corvette has:

+ Aluminum double A-arm front suspension with a composite transverse spring
+ Aluminum 5 link IRS rear suspension with a composite transverse spring
+ A rear mounted transaxle and an aluminum mid-mounted V8
+ Rigid chassis consisting of hydroformed frame rails and a fully composite body
+ A fully flat bottom floor, made of Balsa wood and other composites
+ Room to fit the maximum STU 285mm tire and 11" wide wheels at all 4 corners
+ A curb weight of 3100 pounds in STU trim (proper exhaust headers, titanium Z06 exhaust, racing seats, light wheels and brakes)
+ Low roof height, slippery aerodynamic shape with a wide track width

Does this list of stats sound even remotely like any other car in Street Touring? No? Because it isn't at all like the cars in any Street Touring class. This is bringing the preverbal gun to a knife fight. I don't care that you outlawed the Z06 and FRC (that's just a simple addition down the road), this opens the door for more of the same.

If you add this chassis to STU, they will come, but only in small numbers. Still, the PERCVEIVED EFFECT will be to keep the newly added S197 Mustangs and other RWD cars from even attempting to enter this class. Why? Because whenever you put a well balanced C5 Corvette up against these solid axle 3600 pound RWD cars in an autox setting, the C5 wins. Every time. You are comparing (initially) Super Stock then A Stock to F Stock cars.... it is hard to imagine a farther stretch.

Puff, puff, pass.

 

[csamsh]

Nice response Terry. I'm sure those guys love you. I thought the same thing about the C5, a 3100lb car potentially with Penskes, monster wheels, a good seat, otr intake, exhaust...ugh. That would ruin my day. "Bad gearing..." they can kiss my ass.

 

[Mountain]

This is great news for us!

 

[Whiskey11]

This is great news for us!

Well, as it stands, the way I read it we are getting 285s and nothing more for width. I believe this wont be enough but we shall see. Terry could shed better light on that than I can sinve he has built and ran several STU cars.

 

[Conekiller]

Am I the only one that noticed the Subaru BRZ listed for stu as well? Seems as out of place as the corvette imo.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

So they are giving us the tire allowance by moving us to a faster class? We get 20mm of tire but have to go a second faster to to keep up.....still a non compete. What am I missing?

Give me 315s in STU and I'll be excited.

Yay! for diff cover allowance!

 

[dontlifttoshift]

Am I the only one that noticed the Subaru BRZ listed for stu as well? Seems as out of place as the corvette imo.

BRZ STi

 

[Conekiller]

So an even more powerful version of an already light car? Havent had time to read up on it but seems like it and the corvette would be the cars to have

 

[csamsh]

Am I the only one that noticed the Subaru BRZ listed for stu as well? Seems as out of place as the corvette imo.

And on 285's as well...this will be no different than what we deal with currently.

 

[JesseW.]

i think i may want to start looking at some C5 vette goodness for next year if this lasts. high mileage ones are cheap around here.

 

[sholzer]

Awesome news!

And when did I miss the announcement of a BRZ STi?

 

[boardkat]

Awesome news!

And when did I miss the announcement of a BRZ STi?

^it's an inside SEB joke according to howdy on teh sandbox. they don't have inside information that nobody else has, lol.

i was happy to see the move, saddened to see no additional tire allowance and frustrated to see the 350/370/C5 included as well (370 wasn't specifically mentioned but most likely an oversight - no way they'd move the 350 and not the 370 from STR). this will not be a competitive sandbox to play in for us S197 guys by a long shot - i don't see the C5 sticking after member backlash from the current stakeholders, but i bet the 350/370 does and they will absolutely curbstomp us on the same wheels/tires, all other things being equal. sigh...... not what i wanted to hear when i woke up this morning. so much for my non-stock street tire plans

 

[2008 V6]

i think i may want to start looking at some C5 vette goodness for next year if this lasts. high mileage ones are cheap around here.

C5 Z06 - Just about the best bang for the buck anywhere -

 

[Whiskey11]

^it's an inside SEB joke according to howdy on teh sandbox. they don't have inside information that nobody else has, lol.

i was happy to see the move, saddened to see no additional tire allowance and frustrated to see the 350/370/C5 included as well (370 wasn't specifically mentioned but most likely an oversight - no way they'd move the 350 and not the 370 from STR). this will not be a competitive sandbox to play in for us S197 guys by a long shot - i don't see the C5 sticking after member backlash from the current stakeholders, but i bet the 350/370 does and they will absolutely curbstomp us on the same wheels/tires, all other things being equal. sigh...... not what i wanted to hear when i woke up this morning. so much for my non-stock street tire plans

Curious as to why the Z cars will curbstomp us. They have a suspension advantage, true, but arent they the same weight, similar power and lower torque as the 05-10 Mustangs? With 285s we can actually use some of our power.

I just dont see 285s cutting it though. 315s maybe...

 

[boardkat]

Curious as to why the Z cars will curbstomp us. They have a suspension advantage, true, but arent they the same weight, similar power and lower torque as the 05-10 Mustangs? With 285s we can actually use some of our power.

I just dont see 285s cutting it though. 315s maybe...

you can get an '03 350Z near/under 3000lbs, make power approaching 300 WHP/WTQ, have equal wheel/tire as the 'stang, give it a killer diff (much like the 'stang, a very sore spot in stock form) and a dominant suspension (not to mention a shorter wheelbase and narrower track). once you've driven a prepped 350Z, you'll understand. they don't suck, and keep in mind that brian peters is on 255/9" in STR currently, and not far off the pace of STU, if at all. and he's possibly in the wrong car too (370 not much heavier, better front suspension and more power). now you're giving him 285/10-11"? heh, good luck with that

i would still give it an honest effort on 315s..