ESP may be the best place now, but there's nothing wrong with trying to find a place in Street Touring as well.
Agreed. ESP is still more competitive place to race in these cars, but... the extra allowances and (Hoosier) tire budgets needed to be competitive in ESP vs STU are vastly different.
- An "STU built" S197 would and should still stay street legal, and street friendly. 18x10 or 11" wheels, 285/35/18 tires (Hankook RS-3), some headers, good shocks/springs/camber, some bushings, and maybe seats, cold air, tune and exhaust. You could drive this car to work. We ran in STU for many years with M3s and EVOs and STIs and all of them were still great street cars.
- An "ESP built" S197 would have all of that plus 1000# springs, no emissions equipment, cut fenders and flares, no a/c, and front aero that drags the ground. You don't HAVE to do all of those things to an ESP Mustang, but if you want to win.... you will. These won't stay street cars.
Now I'm not saying it isn't worth the effort to at least TRY and run a Mustang in STU. Because it is, from both the tire costs savings AND the other basic rules in STU make for a much better dual purpose street/autox car. And honestly, THAT is what the majority of Mustang racers want.
There are less than a dozen S197 owners in the entire USofA that will take a fairly modern Mustang, cut it up, gut all of the convenience items like air/con, rip out the a/c and then 100% trailer their car... all to drive around cones in a parking lot. Hell, I've got two of these cars and I don't want to yank the A/C, emissions, and street use from either. But if you want to WIN in ESP, that's what you have to do.
But i suspect there could be hundreds if not thousands of S197 people that wold like to run in STU locally or even Nationally, if they had half a chance. And, at the local level, I think they
do have a chance with the added tire allowed in STU (285mm max, no wheel maximum). The 265mm tire and the crazy narrow 9" wheel limit in STX was just BRUTAL to these cars. They didn't have a hope of trophying at the National level in STX with those skinny ass wheels and tires on these 3500+ pound cars. Add in the 430 whp power levels the 5.0 cars are capable of in STX and the cars become almost undrivable.
But then add 1-2" of wheel width and another 20mm of tire and they aren't half bad. Sure, they still spin the rears in 2nd gear, but it is not like driving around on ICE. And I say all of this from direct experience of doing these exact things, running these cars in these exact classes: STX, STU and ESP.
Sure, a 295 or 315mm tire would make them more competitive in STU, but nobody seriously expected that group of hand wringing old ladies to make that tire allowance at the same time as the STX -> STU jump. It was always going to be a multi-year battle...
Terry, I agree that the C5 would be an overdog for the class, in fact, it seems to invite many other 2 seat cars as well.
Yep, write those letters and stop this C5/350Z overreach.
However, how do you think the STAC & SEB are going to react to "what are you guys smoking"? That automatically sets the mindset of anyone reviewing the merits of your letter.
Heh, it almost doesn't matter what I write anymore. I used to make these long, detailed, fact filled letters. Just like a lot of my posts. But for the SEB? Ignored. Ridiculed. Turned around and thrown in my face. They'd rather use mob logic and "look at the numbers of letters" than spend one second choosing good logic over bad.
After 25 years of dealing with their obtuse rulebook, tortured logic and twisted rulings, I have lost all patience with the SEB. There is definitely some animosity between that group and, well... me and several others that disagree with almost everything they do. Just seeing my name on the online letter already sets them on "auto delete", heh. I could fill my SEB letters with reams of data (used to do that -
total waste of time), rainbows and fart pixie dust and they'd still ignore everything and make a bone headed decision in the end. That seems defeatist, and it is - because of their long history of utter ineptitude.
I'll write a letter as well, if many others do, we will prevail in getting the Mustang in STU with 315's, but, it's going to take some well written, well though out letters with cohesive arguments and facts to back them up.
Nope, the arguments almost don't matter. All it just takes is
volume and lots and lots of
time.
You see, the SEB cannot think for itself. They always blame some committee or "the members" for their bad choices. The only thing they respond to is
copious numbers of letters. Hundreds and hundreds of letters. Over the course of
many years.
This "S197 to STU" is just the first step in the battle to take what is obviously a VERY popular car (at any HPDE/time trial/track event) and make a proper home for it in Street Touring (the fastest growing category in all of SCCA Solo). These cars came out in 2004, and it is now 2013... and they are
finally talking about putting these cars
with the other V8 RWD solid axle cars, in STU. Yep, it took nearly 9 years to make this leap. This is Rules Making at the speed of
tectonic movement.
This car never had a real shot in any ST class before, and honestly still won't win Nationals after the STU move. BUT, many of us knew this was just an iterative step, and knew that those meat sacks would ignore the obvious need for more tire allowance on these weight handicapped cars (3500-3600 pound cars running the exact same "max tire width" as 2900-3100 pound 2WD cars in STU...
MAKES NO SENSE). Of course we asked. Of course many of us put "please add more tire!" in our "please move these cars to STU" letters.
I would wager that it will take... another 2-3 years of poor performances from a multitude of S197 Mustangs in STU at the National level before they would even consider adding a tire modifier to these cars (315mm tire). Why? They are afraid. Afraid of upsetting the "delicate balance of the class"... which, illogically, was just thrown on its head with the "350Z and C5 Corvette to STU" proposal. Afraid of making the logical jump to this: "Well, my oh my! These modern pony cars sure are heavy! They are neither Miatas
NOR Civics! And we have a static maximum tire limit in Street Touring? Well, maybe we should modify that on a curb weight basis, and give these obscenely heavier cars +10 or +30mm of tire? "
The above logic is
not ever going to happen from an SEB meeting, without an angry mob beating on the castle door with torches. Now if this was a new Miata or other sporty 2 seater, they'd jump through rings of FIRE to get it classed competitively and quickly. Just look at the FR-S/BRZ.
You're the main protagonist for the Mustang cause in ST & many thanks for that. But please let a week go by & cool off before firing off letters to the STAC/SEB.
Heh... yea, I'll still be just as sick of these pinheads in a week, a month, a year. It never changes. They always f*ck these things up and make something that should make sense to a 3rd grader take 5-10 years to "get enough letters" from members they don't ignore. Like how they had a chance to revamp the failing Stock category, and they caved on ALL of the important points. I could list 100s of botched rules change attempts they've made, but we don't have enough time.
Cheers,
