Skwerl's first hot rod

[JoshK]

What is your gap Brian? Did your tuner say anything about tightening up the gap some?

When I started taking my built engine over 13-14lbs of boost I started getting a miss also. Tightened the gap down to .028 from .032 and it went away instantly.

 

[skwerl]

^ I was thinking similarly. I just finished swapping plugs. The old ones were at .032 and the new ones were at .030 out of the box so I left them there. Still idling rough.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I would go no bigger than 0.028".

Justin should know which cylinders are missing.

Check them cops!!

 

[skwerl]

It's missing at an idle. Not seeing how the gap would be causing that. If I was losing spark at the top end under full boost then I could see closing down the gap. For now I'm considering the plugs done and not in consideration as the cause of the issue.

 

[stkjock]

I run .028 at 20#. IMO .030 at 13-14 is even a bit narrow.

I agree the gap at idle shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Timmbo]

I will admit that the Mammoth will make tons more power than the TVS, but that's mostly due to its bigger size. There is in adherent design into twin screws, they compress air, when you compress air, you heat it up!!! Roots type blowers to do not compress air.

I'm not a blower expert. But before I chose to go with the 2.3L TVS from ROUSH, I researched KB liquid cooled blower. Every shop I spoke with vouched for the TVS making more power more efficiently up to 800HP (approx 18 PSI max).

The ROUSH TVS is a hybrid roots, not a traditional roots blower.

Gerald...when it comes to PD blowers I'm going to tell you why a LOT of shops try to push Roush over any other PD blower on the market. And the main reason is because of the huge margins on the kits. Dealer/installers make a nice profit on Roush kits. The more they buy, the bigger the discount, the more profit for the shop. Kenne Bell does not operate that way. Dealer/installers hate Kenne Bell because KB will not give dealers wholesale pricing. KB pricing is the same whether your an individual or a shop. Shops can't make money off KB like they can Roush so naturally any shop is going to try to sell you a Roush over the KB.

I personally have nothing against Roush. Matter of fact, my old M90 kit from a install standpoint was very well packaged and the instructions were clear and concise. If Roush made a larger blower than a 2.3L I would have purchased it in a heartbeat because IMO Roush makes great performing products that are easy to install. The KB Mammoth kit is more on the boutique side that requires a bit more labor and preparation than most kits. Yet another reason why dealer/installers would rather do a Roush kit over a KB. At the end of the day it is really what somebody wants. They are both quality products.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Gerald...when it comes to PD blowers I'm going to tell you why a LOT of shops try to push Roush over any other PD blower on the market. And the main reason is because of the huge margins on the kits. Dealer/installers make a nice profit on Roush kits. The more they buy, the bigger the discount, the more profit for the shop. Kenne Bell does not operate that way. Dealer/installers hate Kenne Bell because KB will not give dealers wholesale pricing. KB pricing is the same whether your an individual or a shop. Shops can't make money off KB like they can Roush so naturally any shop is going to try to sell you a Roush over the KB.

I personally have nothing against Roush. Matter of fact, my old M90 kit from a install standpoint was very well packaged and the instructions were clear and concise. If Roush made a larger blower than a 2.3L I would have purchased it in a heartbeat because IMO Roush makes great performing products that are easy to install. The KB Mammoth kit is more on the boutique side that requires a bit more labor and preparation than most kits. Yet another reason why dealer/installers would rather do a Roush kit over a KB. At the end of the day it is really what somebody wants. They are both quality products.

I agree!!

 

[tigerhonaker]

I will 2nd that ^^^



tigerhonaker

 

[skwerl]

This firing miss is really beginning to bug me. My mechanic Alan said it could be a broken valve spring, and Justin agreed that was a possibility. Alan said I could pull the valve cover then take a hammer and punch and tap on the top of each valve stem/rocker. The valve with the broken spring would sound distinctly different. I did this to the best of my ability and couldn't find a broken spring.

Unsure of what to do next, I just put it back together again. Fired it up and it idled perfect. Decided to take it to lunch and a mile down the road it wouldn't idle again. Had to turn around and bring it home. Looks like I need to take a closer look at those valve springs. I borrowed a compression tester but it didn't have the right adapter for out tiny spark plug holes. Alan said he would order one from his Snap-On man.

I guess next step after the compression test is to take a closer look at those valve springs again. I wish I could post up the datalog sheet from the dyno. The misfires are very obvious.

 

[stkjock]

you should be able to take the data log file and make a zip file and upload it

 

[AutoXRacer]

Are you sure its not the VCT solenoids!!!???

Take them out and look at the filter screens!!

With my old motor, I had a similar issue where the car idled perfectly, then randomly it would idle horribly...sort of if like I had high lift cams!!

Pulled the solenoids, looked at the screens, and it was full of metal shavings.
I'm not saying this is your case, but maybe some RTV or debris? Maybe just a failed solenoid.

Regardless, it should be evident in the logs.

 

[19COBRA93]

Well I spent a good part of yesterday, and all this morning reading this whole thread. It baffles me that I missed this whole thing until now.

Awesome build, awesome results so far. Hopefully your miss is an easy fix (it's always worst case scenario for me). I'd do a compression test before anything else.

3 things;

1. I wish I were at sea level like you guys.
B. I wish my track were open all year.
III. I wish my car weighed 300lbs less.

Great build here though. Keep up the good work. I'm curious to hear your results with those Goodyear drag radials. Drag radials of any sort don't seem to work well at our track.

 

[skwerl]

Gerald, where the hell were you this morning when I had the valve cover off? I appreciate the suggestion and will check that the next round. Heck, it might end up being tonight. It only takes about 20 minutes to get the left valve cover off.

 

[skwerl]

Sam, thanks for the kind words. I'm holding off on mounting the tires until I get the car running right. However I did take a picture comparing the two. My old Hoosiers are 26/11.50-15.

 

[AutoXRacer]

This morning? I was probably sleeping since I'm on the West Coast... LOL

Why not take off the passenger one? Isn't your blower the one that runs across the driver side valve cover?

Left should be driver
Right should be passenger

LOL

Sorry Brian, I was thinking it was spark plug related.
Since its a new build, I keep thinking, new parts!! Did you use your old solenoids or did you install new ones?

 

[skwerl]

I took off the driver side valve cover because that's the side where the miss is located, verified on the dyno yesterday. I believe it's #5 cylinder because when it's idling rough I can unplug #5 coil and the idle doesn't change.

I did reuse the solenoids because there wasn't anything wrong with them. I believe I made a quick check of the screens before installing them and everything looked good at the time.

Just got this image from Justin. Not sure why there's a gap at 5k rpm but you can see the dips from the misfires.

 

[AutoXRacer]

You need the valve train logs!!!

Hmm, if its isolated to one cylinder, then I would say its probably not the solenoids and the whole bank should be off.

Have you had any CELs?

Obviously, did you R&R the COP? Have you checked the wiring and connector to the COP?
Spark plug isn't cracked or anything?

 

[skwerl]

Swapped several COPs and replaced a couple with some out of an old set Justin had saved at the shop. Isolated the wire running from #5 COP back to the PCM and tested continuity. Plugs were new 2 months ago but I replaced them all again anyway. It's not the plugs, that I can guarantee. No CELs.

 

[Scott]

Brian, good luck with the diagnosis, once you have a 12mm compression end, should be pretty easy to remove the springs from #5 if you have access to one of the Freedom Racing Valve Spring tools.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Swapped several COPs and replaced a couple with some out of an old set Justin had saved at the shop. Isolated the wire running from #5 COP back to the PCM and tested continuity. Plugs were new 2 months ago but I replaced them all again anyway. It's not the plugs, that I can guarantee. No CELs.

Not a cracked insulator/ceramic?
I'm looking for simple things...broken spring seems a little out there; but possible.