Taller rear springs?

[ClassJ]

Anyone run into issues with the Steeda sport springs just being too low in the back especially after they settle?

I really want to swap out the rear springs for something taller but do not know what to try. FRPP springs? Steeda sport rear vert springs?

I have the sport springs and Koni's from Strano and the back of the car just seems too low at this point. When first installed they seemed ok.

I started cut the bump stops a couple times and even then only had .5" of travel to the stop best case with a driver seated. At that point the axle was banging metal to metal under hard bumps and the screws for the bumpstops were hitting the frame under some circumstances.

I put in the FRPP bump stop kit in the back which solved that problem. But the car has nearly zero suspension travel before it is on the bumpstops.

When a driver is in the car, the back of the car is lower than the front.

Car is street use only.

 

[NoTicket]

The Steeda Sport springs claim they are supposed to drop the rear of the car by 1.25". This sounds like much more than that if you only have about 1/2" before hitting the bump stops. Have you tried contacting Steeda about it?

This also is probably not the right subforum for this question.

 

[ClassJ]

Contacted Steeda in the fall. They recommended cutting the bump stops one more level. Suspension travel was better, but the loud thunk over bumps when accelerating turned out to be the bump stop mounting screws hitting the bottom of the frame rail.

The FRPP stops protect the car but are just too close with one person in the car. With two people it is worse. I never have passengers in the back seat.

I guess the point is I can't be the only one experiencing this. Having the suspension load onto the bumpstops from a cornering standpoint is not a good idea let alone the nasty bump harshness. For hard street or track use it is not right. I had my alignment shop weight the drivers seat and check ride height and the back is sagging very slightly compared to the front.

When the springs were new, this was a non issue. After 2 years or so the springs have settled to their current position. Steeda's position is that the springs are fine since the car is near level without passenger. My thoughts are that the stops are as low as possible and still are interfering with suspension travel. So the spring design is flawed.

I don't want to pull the struts, but putting a slightly taller rear spring in the car or a spring spacer would be good. Anyone have a recommendation? A linear spring would be preferred.

 

[csamsh]

If I were you, I would buy a weight jacker setup with some coilover springs. Maybe not the cheapest solution in the world...but it will allow you to choose a linear rate spring and finely adjust ride height.

 

[Apex50]

Finding the latest clunk in the rear suspension is on my to-do list. I have the same set up as you. I'll check travel and see if mine have settled too. Also about 2 years for me. Thanks for the heads up.

For a street only application- these might suit you: http://www.brembo50.com/Default.aspx?pageId=1200846

 

[ClassJ]

Thanks guys. I am going to see what I can find spacer or adjustable mount wise and go from there. I want to stay linear for sure.

I had progressive H&R springs a few years ago and the progressive coil design was not my cup of tea. Made dialing in damping very difficult and the car was too uneasy over mid-corner bumps.

 

[NDSP]

One way to keep off the bump stops would be to stiffen up the shocks in the back. If you have them on full soft, that will allow the spring to compress as quick as it likes. I have K springs with more drop than yours and with the stops cut down and blisteins, I never hit the stops. From your pic, I do not think you have too much drop in back. As least to my eye it needs more to look good. Hell I don't think I have enough drop to be pleasing to the eye.

 

[ClassJ]

Thanks. I usually have the shocks either at full soft or 25% but can try that. Really at this point my goal is to get the car level or slightly up in the rear with me in the car. That was the case when the springs were new. Now not so much.

The photo in my sig is from when the car was new in 2006 before any mods.

 

[NDSP]

The photo in my sig is from when the car was new in 2006 before any mods.

Oops, well that would explain that. My K Springs are progressive and rated at 199#s, where your Sports are Standard and 175#s. So it is pretty much apples to oranges, but I was hitting the bumps stops pretty hard before I cut them and put in the bilsteins. I haven't hit them since. Bilsteins ride pretty firm.

 

[05gtowner]

Have you looked into swapping the Roush 401295's in the rear? Many 05-09 S197 owners do it to eliminate the excessive rake the cars come with. I have them in the rear of mine now and I don't hit the bump stops wit stock shocks. I would adjust your shock a little firmer and go from there.

 

[Sam Strano]

First let's make sure that we all are on the same page with regards to "progressive" springs. Most all of the, including Eibach and Steeda Ultralites, H&R, etc. are dual stage. A soft rate (the close coils) and a stiffer rate. The soft rate is generally not in play, at all when you drive the car. The exception is some hotchkis springs that are dynamically progressive.

That said ALL springs by their nature gain rate as they compress.

Also shocks will not and do not limit travel. Changing shocks will not suddenly stop you from "hitting the bumpstops" though many think that because what they do do is damp the impact quite a bit. Shocks are dampers. And any of these cars, even stock ones use and "hit" the rear stops. Look at the body of any Mustang above the stop it will be clean from the contact.

Ok, now... you lowered the car, that's going to cut into the working travel you have between the stop and the body, all springs do that. What you want is not a longer spring, but a stiffer one if you want more support from the spring, so you don't hit the stop as hard. And that's easy, I can get you rear springs that will fit right in there in higher rates all day long. That said the stiffer the spring, the less low the car will be unless we go with a shorter spring. If you want complete control over it, then what we'd want is a weight jacker (which I have) with an appropriate length spring (which I have) to allow you to adjust the height as you see fit.

As for "settling" that's a new one as the springs are very high quality Hypercoils. But it could be that you just need more rate.

I'd also ask if the ride got hard when the weather got cold???? Because the spring rates don't change but the tires get stiffer, the oil in the shocks gets thicker, the rubber seals stiffen up, the bushings in the suspension get harder and ride always suffers on every car in the cold.

 

[ClassJ]

Thanks everyone. Sam thanks for clarifying on the sprigs. We are on the same page. The H&R sport springs I had before these were progressive rate and when combined with Bilstein shocks the car was a pogo stick.

The setup you sold me was a huge improvement. I believe it settled about 3/8" since they were first installed. I think I am going to stiffen the back shocks a little and look for a stiffer rear spring that nets a slightly taller rear ride height. Steeda claims they have a convertible spring that might work. If someone made 1/2" spacers I would try those first.

The cold weather makes the car ride a little stiffer.

Big issue is that I had two buddies at work sit in the car while I measured and the back drops quite a bit with one or two passengers and is very close to the stops. Seems like Steeda may have missed the mark on the rear spring rates.

 

[Sam Strano]

Well, the convertible springs are the same springs in a 10 lb/in stiffer rate. I can also get those for you (and for less, or in a bit higher rate if you want to do that too).

As for the fact it gets harder when it's cold, well the spring rates aren't changing, but the shock oil stiffens as does all the rubber, and the bumpstops do too. Again, if you want to up the rear rate, we can do that very, very easily. Did they miss? Well you yourself say it's a lot better than what you had (which some think are the gold standard!).

 

[ClassJ]

Thanks Sam! I will give you a call to discuss.

 

[barbaro]

I had the same exact problem and I went to Boss Springs and I have never looked back.

 

[Pentalab]

Your steeda sport springs are not stiff enough. If you lower the car, you also have to make the springs stiffer. The springs absorb the impact, the shocks are dampers..that stop the springs from oscillating like a rubber ball. With compression + rebound..and at suspension extremes, the springs will store energy. The shocks will control the rate of how quick the springs release their energy.

With a 1" - 1.25" - 1.5" drop, (+ any additional 'settling') the springs gotta be stiff. If you are seeing the back end droop... just from the weight of 1-2 folks in the front seat, you got a serious problem. You should be able to stuff 4 x folks in there...and a full tank of gas, a trunk full of junk....and see very little sag, if any, in the back end of the car.

Setting the shocks stiffer is just a band-aid solution. Some springs will settle, and some don't. The lower you go, the stiffer it needs to be. You have less and less wiggle room to work with. For a street car, a 1" drop front + rear is plenty. With the steeda eng mounts, you can also drop the eng + tranny 0" - .25" - .5" - .75". I used steeda eng mounts when the LT's got installed...and lowered the eng /tranny by .25". That, plus the Roush 1" drop on front + back is plenty for my applications....as a DD 1st.

 

[skwerl]

How about the FRPP springs used on the Bullitt? They are about 3/4" lower than stock (although mine have settled a bit in the last 4 years). I don't have the part number but it should be easy enough to find. Contact Steve@Tasca and see what he can do for you.

 

[Bingo]

My ride gets quite disturbed over bumps when I bottom out with my Steeda Sport springs. I sense coilovers are in my future. I don't think it's from settling; it's just the inherent nature of "street friendly" lowering springs.

Sent from a Galaxy S4 far, far away.

 

[ClassJ]

This is still on my spring "to do" list. Bi-weekly snow the past few weeks has kept me from even thinking about it.

In any event I agree, when a car is lowered, spring rates must rise. I guess Steeda did not crank the spring rates high enough. I am going to speak to Sam at some point to determine what spring would be a better fit for the back of the car for more rate and a taller ride height.

The suggestions above are all good ones.

 

[Pony DNA]

This is still on my spring "to do" list. Bi-weekly snow the past few weeks has kept me from even thinking about it.

In any event I agree, when a car is lowered, spring rates must rise. I guess Steeda did not crank the spring rates high enough. I am going to speak to Sam at some point to determine what spring would be a better fit for the back of the car for more rate and a taller ride height.

The suggestions above are all good ones.

ClassJ,

Have you inspected the upper spring seat isolator pads and lower seats? I frequently work on my suspension and the other day while working on getting the Steeda Watt's link in my S197GT adjusted just so I pulled out the springs to measure the axle motion and axle offset from full bump to full droop. I noticed that my rear upper spring pads are almost cut through the rubber! It might explain some of your reduced ride height but not all of it if they are damaged or worn like mine were.

But I would suggest buying a pair of Steeda adjustable rear spring seats and buying a pair of Hyperco 2.5" linear rate springs. The Steeda Competition rear rate as I recall is 175lb/in and with that spring rate and the Steeda adjusters you will need a 10" tall spring. BTW, the Steeda adjusters are a nicer design than the similar GC parts. Either way I highly recommend using Hyperco springs, they are the best conventional race springs I've seen and measured over the years. You can pay more but you will have a hard time finding a better more repeatable race spring.

HTH!