The first S197 Mustang GT NHRA Stocker...it's official now and it was a 3V GT

[83-88T-Bird Guy]

Congrats on hitting the 12s.

Very cool man! love to see this!

Thanks guys !
It's fun trying to see how far I can go with this combo within a budget.

Let me know if you want me to send you my old manual trans ECU and the matched SCT 2 tuner. It's just collecting dust and will never be re-used.

Thanks Art.
I will keep that in mind if Lito cannot turn off the automatic trans functions in the original ECU.

My biggest hangup right now is to configure a setup to simulate the original speedometer sensor and mount it on the 8.8 flange.
( If anyone has info on how to perform this, then I am all ears )

 

[testcase448]

Alan,
I'm following your build with great interest. I have a 3V GT I would like to try in IHRA pure stock, but the IHRA hasn,t recognized the combo because they don't have complete cam specs. I have been speaking to Dan Faheyabout how to make that happen along with Mike from the IHRA. No luck thus far.

 

[83-88T-Bird Guy]

Alan,
I'm following your build with great interest. I have a 3V GT I would like to try in IHRA pure stock, but the IHRA hasn,t recognized the combo because they don't have complete cam specs. I have been speaking to Dan Faheyabout how to make that happen along with Mike from the IHRA. No luck thus far.

Earlier this year, I contacted Mike Baker @ IHRA to request the IHRA specs on the '05 model.
What he sent me is identical to NHRA specs ( even had the NHRA logo on the sheet)

Only 2005 and older model vehicles are eligible for Pure Stock so the '05 GT @ 300 hp. has a shipping wt. of 3,356 lbs.
That makes it have a 11.19 lbs. per h.p. factor so it would fit into the D/PS class. ( 11.00-11.99 lbs. per h.p in D/PS )

At 11.00 lbs times 300 hp plus 170 lbs. for driver , the total weight of the car with driver needs to be at least 3470 lbs. after a run.

The D/PS index is 13.10 in the 1/4 and 8.50 in the 1/8th.

My car would be 100% legal for pure stock right now if I put the factory style mechanical water pump back on and some "non-straight thru" mufflers.

I believe I could get it to run right on or under index @ 3500 lbs. (the lightest I can get it right now without removing the stereo)

I will look at IHRA's schedule for next year and if they have an event I can run Pure Stock in, then I might renew my membership and try it out.
However, if IHRA cannot come up with cam specs then the car may not be eligible.

 

[testcase448]

Earlier this year, I contacted Mike Baker @ IHRA to request the IHRA specs on the '05 model.
What he sent me is identical to NHRA specs ( even had the NHRA logo on the sheet)

Only 2005 and older model vehicles are eligible for Pure Stock so the '05 GT @ 300 hp. has a shipping wt. of 3,356 lbs.
That makes it have a 11.19 lbs. per h.p. factor so it would fit into the D/PS class. ( 11.00-11.99 lbs. per h.p in D/PS )

At 11.00 lbs times 300 hp plus 170 lbs. for driver , the total weight of the car with driver needs to be at least 3470 lbs. after a run.

The D/PS index is 13.10 in the 1/4 and 8.50 in the 1/8th.

My car would be 100% legal for pure stock right now if I put the factory style mechanical water pump back on and some "non-straight thru" mufflers.

I believe I could get it to run right on or under index @ 3500 lbs. (the lightest I can get it right now without removing the stereo)

I will look at IHRA's schedule for next year and if they have an event I can run Pure Stock in, then I might renew my membership and try it out.
However, if IHRA cannot come up with cam specs then the car may not be eligible.

The NHRA has the lift posted so I could run Fuel Injected Stock but they didn't post the rest of the numbers. I don't know who provided the NHRA with those numbers to get the 3V in the guide.
My thought is to find a stock cam and ask Mike Baker where I could get it sent to have it spec-ed and verified to suit him. I'd send a check for him to buy one and send where ever to get it done .

I believe these are the numbers right and left camshafts respectively garnered from the interweb

RF-5L1E-6251-D and RF-5L1E-6C-255-DA

Stock: 196/221 @ .050” duration, .439/.439, 117.25 LSA


Fahey says just show up, claim it as a 2005 have a driver number ect... the class on the car.

Mines a stick, so it's never going to be all that consistent, but I think with a CAI, long tubes and off road H pipe with no Cats, and a 4.10 gear the thing should run 12.8-12.9 with a good tune. Got to look at the rules to see about under drive pulleys being legal in P/S or not. The calculators say 325 flywheel and it will run that

Bolt on traction devices so adjustable lower and upper control arms...

 

[lindertw]

crower has notes for oem 3v at this link (page 3 on the pdf file, page 59 on the catalog page): http://www.crower.com/media/pdf/ford.pdf

they don't match with what testcase posted, I think short of having one profiled it's all a guess

 

[testcase448]

crower has notes for oem 3v at this link (page 3 on the pdf file, page 59 on the catalog page): http://www.crower.com/media/pdf/ford.pdf

they don't match with what testcase posted, I think short of having one profiled it's all a guess

It's like a state secret

 

[83-88T-Bird Guy]

The NHRA has the lift posted so I could run Fuel Injected Stock but they didn't post the rest of the numbers. I don't know who provided the NHRA with those numbers to get the 3V in the guide.
My thought is to find a stock cam and ask Mike Baker where I could get it sent to have it spec-ed and verified to suit him. I'd send a check for him to buy one and send where ever to get it done .

I believe these are the numbers right and left camshafts respectively garnered from the interweb

RF-5L1E-6251-D and RF-5L1E-6C-255-DA

Stock: 196/221 @ .050” duration, .439/.439, 117.25 LSA


Fahey says just show up, claim it as a 2005 have a driver number ect... the class on the car.

Mines a stick, so it's never going to be all that consistent, but I think with a CAI, long tubes and off road H pipe with no Cats, and a 4.10 gear the thing should run 12.8-12.9 with a good tune. Got to look at the rules to see about under drive pulleys being legal in P/S or not. The calculators say 325 flywheel and it will run that

Bolt on traction devices so adjustable lower and upper control arms...

Adjustable lower control arms are a no-no in either Pure Stock or NHRA/IHRA Stock. Adjustable uppers are fine.

Also...P/S requires stock pulleys and water pump.
If you run headers in P/S you need to have "non-straight thru" mufflers.
If you run stock exh. manifolds then you can run open pipes.

In P/S, the ECU contrroling the engine and trans must be the factory Spanish Oak setup.

You would also need to be a IHRA member ( maybe $ 70 a year ? ) but they will give you a free car number with paid membership.

The beauty of P/S is that you can run pump gas. (no worry about fuel checks)
If you run Fuel Injection Stock it requires fuel from IHRA's approved list and they normally do fuel check after first rd. of qualifying.

Lastly, the cam.
If you can get a company to test a stock cam and submit specs to IHRA that would be great.
In my e-mails to Mike Baker last year about getting the 2011-2014 3.7 Mustang engine legal in Pure Stock, the cam duration, c/l and overlap was the sticking point.
IIRC, Jesse Kershaw @ Ford Racing came to the rescue after I messaged him requesting help and supplied the 3.7 blueprints.

Within hours he sent Mike Baker the 3.7 engine specs but I will have to look in my files and see if those 3 cam specs were included. I know max lift was.

 

[83-88T-Bird Guy]

crower has notes for oem 3v at this link (page 3 on the pdf file, page 59 on the catalog page): http://www.crower.com/media/pdf/ford.pdf

they don't match with what testcase posted, I think short of having one profiled it's all a guess

The one area IHRA is concerned about in Pure Stock is the variable cam timing.
Last time I checked, they did not have a way of verifying the duration, overlap, and c/l.
Plus those valvespring pressures have to be stock spec, so that's another item that would need to be verified by IHRA tech.

 

[testcase448]

Adjustable lower control arms are a no-no in either Pure Stock or NHRA/IHRA Stock. Adjustable uppers are fine.

Also...P/S requires stock pulleys and water pump.
If you run headers in P/S you need to have "non-straight thru" mufflers.
If you run stock exh. manifolds then you can run open pipes.

In P/S, the ECU contrroling the engine and trans must be the factory Spanish Oak setup.

You would also need to be a IHRA member ( maybe $ 70 a year ? ) but they will give you a free car number with paid membership.

The beauty of P/S is that you can run pump gas. (no worry about fuel checks)
If you run Fuel Injection Stock it requires fuel from IHRA's approved list and they normally do fuel check after first rd. of qualifying.

Lastly, the cam.
If you can get a company to test a stock cam and submit specs to IHRA that would be great.
In my e-mails to Mike Baker last year about getting the 2011-2014 3.7 Mustang engine legal in Pure Stock, the cam duration, c/l and overlap was the sticking point.
IIRC, Jesse Kershaw @ Ford Racing came to the rescue after I messaged him requesting help and supplied the 3.7 blueprints.

Within hours he sent Mike Baker the 3.7 engine specs but I will have to look in my files and see if those 3 cam specs were included. I know max lift was.

If ONLY the lift spec was included in the prints for the 4.6 3 valve that would explain why that's the only number posted in the NHRA guide.

Sean Hyland listed these as stocks pecs in his 4.6 build book..

196 degrees intake...222 exhaust @0.050 valve lift
.445 lift intake .436 ex lift
No lobe center given
The variable valve timing will pull up to 55 Degrees
out

Now in the NHRA guide, they show .473 lift which is the ford racing"Hot Rod" cam? If that is the cam we can use.... the rest would be
From Ford Performance web catalog for
I quote
Increases lift from the stock 11 mm/0.433" to 12 mm/0.472"
Intake / exhaust duration of 221 / 240 degrees (@ 0.050" lift), lobe separation of 110 degrees.
Compatible with production valve springs, followers and lash adjusters up to 6800 rpm

By "Stock Spanish Oak set up" it can be tuned correct?.

 

[83-88T-Bird Guy]

If ONLY the lift spec was included in the prints for the 4.6 3 valve that would explain why that's the only number posted in the NHRA guide.

Sean Hyland listed these as stocks pecs in his 4.6 build book..

196 degrees intake...222 exhaust @0.050 valve lift
.445 lift intake .436 ex lift
No lobe center given
The variable valve timing will pull up to 55 Degrees
out

Now in the NHRA guide, they show .473 lift which is the ford racing"Hot Rod" cam? If that is the cam we can use.... the rest would be
From Ford Performance web catalog for
I quote
Increases lift from the stock 11 mm/0.433" to 12 mm/0.472"
Intake / exhaust duration of 221 / 240 degrees (@ 0.050" lift), lobe separation of 110 degrees.
Compatible with production valve springs, followers and lash adjusters up to 6800 rpm

By "Stock Spanish Oak set up" it can be tuned correct?.

Even tho NHRA and IHRA Stock EFI use the same "max valve lift" spec for '05's, that would not be the spec for P/S because as you posted above the factory 3V cam had less lift than .473". Touchy area there. Those Hot Rods cams by no means would pass in P/S unless IHRA was to approve those specs for duration, overlap, etc. ( someone slipping them thru)

In Pure Stock you have to use the factory ecu. ( '05-'10 GT was Spanish Oak) Any tune allowed tho.
You can run racing fuel so more timing and also tuning the cam phasers and cmcp functions out I believe would be legal.

In Stock EFI you can run an aftermarket ECU like Big Stuff etc. provided the system is on the approved list.

Basically IHRA uses mostly NHRA rules so I would believe if it's approved for NHRA Stock then it would be legal for IHRA Stock EFI

 

[testcase448]

Even tho NHRA and IHRA Stock EFI use the same "max valve lift" spec for '05's, that would not be the spec for P/S because as you posted above the factory 3V cam had less lift than .473". Touchy area there. Those Hot Rods cams by no means would pass in P/S unless IHRA was to approve those specs for duration, overlap, etc. ( someone slipping them thru)

LOL

I don't think ant 300 hp 4.6 3 Valve ever had the .473 lift cam but that is how the NHRA lists it

I'm just not seeing a path to get it approved for Pure Stock.

I am curious, you said you were trying to get the 3.7 recognized, I thought the P/S rules say 2005 and earlier?

 

[83-88T-Bird Guy]

LOL

I don't think ant 300 hp 4.6 3 Valve ever had the .473 lift cam but that is how the NHRA lists it

I'm just not seeing a path to get it approved for Pure Stock.

I am curious, you said you were trying to get the 3.7 recognized, I thought the P/S rules say 2005 and earlier?

The 2005 and older rule must have happened this year or possibly last year because in 2014 they were legal as this screenshot shown of my e-mails indicates that Mike Baker approved the 3.7 in 2014.
I am going to e-mail Tony back and see what became of this.
I remember him telling me he got his 2014 3.7 Mustang to run under index at one time.

At any rate, if someone could get those "Hot Rod" cams approved in P/S for the '05 GT, then that would be awesome !

 

[Joe combs]

New member here from northern kentucky. Currently putting together a 2005 mustang automatic to try and run stock class next year. Will be using edgewater for my testing grounds when the car finally gets put together. Any help would be appreciated...