there goes the neighborhood

vinnybarber

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well i started a thread about history of my build but i wouldn't take it. guess i was to winded. in short what i was saying. i have heard some of you guys complain about you oil pumps.

well guess what? i run that same pump. my car makes 1250hp at the wheels.

i am not trying to be a smart ass. but if i can help you in any way pm me
and i will try to answer your question.

i know how it feels and i have been down your road

After reading, some of the post and what people are saying about companies .i think I need to tell my story.

I bought my car on April 9 2005 at 10am. I remember this because my brother called me and told me to get to the hospital. I lost my dad that day.

I put a pro charger on it. Drove it until I had 25000 miles on it. I blew the pistons out both sides of the block. That’s what got me started. I know your pain. Every dollar until this year has come out off my pocket. I turned down a big sponsor last year because I would not let him wrap my car.

When I built my first motor there was a lot of things done wrong. Every builder said the 3v can’t hold this much power. I fooled with it for two years. The first shop was no help at all. The only good from the first shop was I met mike Wilson who turn the wrenches.

Mike went to work at modular depot and asked me to talk to ken. That’s the best move I have made. Ken and Mike spent a year trying to get my car to do what the other shop said it would do. Then that fall it decided to die.

Factory computer

Did you know you can buy the software to data log your factory computer. When you build a motor to make this kind of power with a stock computer there is a whole lot of things that have to be turned off . Your tuner needs to take his time. We data logged and checked the plugs on every pull and pass down the track. We changed the heat range on the plugs twice. Put extra fuel in to try to keep the cylinders from getting to much heat.

You can build a motor to run high horse power on pump gas. People do. But all it takes is the tune not being quite right or a bad tank of fuel to end up with a pile of metal. are you going to make the gas company pay. I don’t think so. When you play you pay.

Motor

When mine went, Ken and I sat down and talked about who to use. We talked to Tony at bes racing. We told him what we wanted to do and asked him if it was his was his. what would he do. Week later he called and said this is what I would do. So I did what he said.
My second motor was five thousand dollars cheaper than my first one. He even built the intake and a custom oil pan. The only problem we had was the exhaust port was ported to thin. He said he thought he could fix it. But it didn’t hold.

My first heads were stage111 by Livernois and hand ported by Tony. These guys are great. I have been to their shop and met them personally. There place is top notch. I started a post looking for someone else. It wasn’t because of there work. I was because I had a race coming up and mike didn’t get back with me fast enough. We worked it out. I did look at other heads. But ken and Tony felt it was better to say with who we had. And after meeting them in person I glad I stayed. My heads now are stage111r.


People some times pick the wrong parts. Some people have failure and get on here and complain. Guys do your homework. This motor has been in my car for two years now. My advice to you is take your time. When you tune take baby steps, pull plugs. I run the same oil pump some of you complain about.

I run these same heads that ck is complaining about. My car makes 1247hp to the wheels and we still haven’t leaned on it hard yet. My converter is still to loose.

I am on this board everyday. If I can help you with some of your questions pm me and I will answer your question. I know how it feels and the dollars it takes to get there. You may not like my answer but I won’t lie to you.
 
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stkjock

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Vinny,

if you still have the write up and want to put it in a word document or the like and email it to me, I'll get it posted for you.

Let me know and I'll PM you my email

Dave
 

stkjock

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I understand. Well if the feeling ever comes over you again to write it all out a second time, my offer stands
 

Croft

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I would like to read it as well. Everyone could take something from it I am sure.
 

Croft

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Excellent info, thanks for posting. I am FAR from building my own motor and definitely not putting down those kinds of numbers, BUT it is always good to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly. Thanks again.
 

vinnybarber

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left out part about vac pump. any that saw my car run saw it smoke on decell. we meant to fix over winter but forgot. thought we need pump.
we noticed we were making 130 pounds of oil pressure at the stripe.when we replaced heads we also pulled the pan and modifed pump. it lowered pressure to 100 at the stripe. now smoke is gone and didn't have to spend
all that money on pump
 

stkjock

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Vin - the motor now is a 302? and the stock computer was removed in favor of a Big Stuff 3?
 

vinnybarber

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the motor is a 323. ken wanted to keep the stock computer and play with it more. he thought he still could do more with it. but with the car tore apart i felt like it was time to go ahead and make the change.
 

ChevyKiller

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Vinny - great info - but it should be pointed out that my Livernois heads have already been confirmed to have a cam issue from comp. What that exact issue is is still being debated but comp acknowledged immediately after inspection that something with the cam they supplied Livernois was not right.

Again, that's not Livernois fault - but it sure ain't mine either.
 

vinnybarber

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mark
i agree you had a cam issue and i know livernois will make that right.
but we also know something else was not right. i don't know what your discussions were with your builder but there are alot of things have to be changed to make these motors live at high hp.
once you reach 1000 plus there alot of custom stuff that needs to be changed. and there is even under 1000hp.

my point is to anybody you need to really check every tuners and builders
skill level
 

ChevyKiller

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i agree you had a cam issue and i know livernois will make that right.
but we also know something else was not right. i don't know what your discussions were with your builder but there are alot of things have to be changed to make these motors live at high hp.
once you reach 1000 plus there alot of custom stuff that needs to be changed. and there is even under 1000hp.

my point is to anybody you need to really check every tuners and builders
skill level

Believe me - I totally understand that now. Rich Groh and Burcham were very helpful in 'dummy down' versions of what is what so I could understand. I agree with you a million percent.

In my particular case, and I'm sure with many others - the trouble is our lack of knowledge about stuff is our weakness because we rely on our builders. The trouble is most builders don't say "making 1000 rwhp is very difficult and this is what it takes..." They say with confidence, "no problem - I know exactly what to do and it's going to cost this much..."

As consumers, we rely on their experience and doing what they say they can do. There are very few guys (Like yourself, Ken, Burcham, etc) who have actually done it and know what it takes and you guys are rarely on the forums giving advice so it's hard to 'research' as you say because the research available to the consumers is basically the words of the guys who seem to be screwing shit up. Here-in lies a major problem I think.
 

vinnybarber

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mark'

thats why you see me on here talking. people need to know. will i give you part numbers. no but i will tell you what to look for. my cams are a custom grinds to our specs. but i will tell you or anyone that ask what to look for in a builder and a tuner
 

vinnybarber

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yes i agree bes is great. mine was one of the first mod motors tony built to this level. and look how well is has stayed together.
 

EagleStroker

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My opinion has always been that they were good with motors period. I know I need to bug them about an intake manifold now :beer:
 

vinnybarber

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guys when you decide to build these motors. sit down with these shops and builders and ask questions. don't just let someone build your motor and tune it because you have heard good things.

its not that a shop can't build these. its there experience
even if they don't have it find out what they are willing to do to let you be there test bed. know what you are up against.
know what parts are going in.
what there tuning level.
talk to people the have done this for
 

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