This is why shocks matter.....

[luillo]

I think D-specs are the cost-effective, quick, and streetable solutiuon.

FWIW, you might want to read this:
------------------------------------
Koni Adjustable Drag Racing Shock Absorber Series SPA1

90/10 Theory Falls By Wayside
The KONI SPA1 series shock absorber (for drag racing only) is a complete departure from the old "90/10" thinking which is no longer effective in modern drag race competition.

The old thinking was to allow the vehicle front end to rise quickly and stay there to promote as much weight transfer as possible to the rear wheels. This was achieved by virtually no rebound forces ("10") and a great deal of bump forces ("90"). This massive amount of bump force was supposed to hold the front suspension up and maintain that "bite."

Unfortunately the nose-in-the-air position trapped huge volumes of air which ruined any attempt at aerodynamics so E.T.s were not as good as they could have been.

KONI SPA1 series shocks deal with this in several ways. First, they use virtually no bump (compression) damping. Why? To allow the front-end to settle quicker, restoring the nose down attitude that is so essential for cleaner air flow. Second, the rebound (extension) forces are velocity sensitive; that is, they increase at a rate directly proportionate to piston speed.

So, what does this mean?

On a dry surface with good hookup, the amount of lift generated by initial launch is, of course, very sudden and quite violent. The velocity sensitive nature of the SPA1 reacts instantly (no magic, just good design and tuning) to damp this lift to avoid bogging caused by too much weight transfer. Yes, you can have too much of a good thing.

On the other end of the spectrum, a slick surface would naturally provide less lift and tire shock, so the SPA1 then allows more movement of the front end because the lack of traction initially does not lift the chassis as violently. This "gentle" impulse does not activate the higher speed circuit of the SPA1, so you end up with more front to rear weight transfer and accordingly better bite. Not only that, they have five settings that enable you to tune your chassis. For KONI rear SPA1 shock, there is a big difference. They still have nearly zero bump (compression) damping but the rebound damping, unlike the fronts, is digressive.

Digressive means they are designed to digress, or "blow off" at high piston speed. Why? Well, if you had the velocity sensitive type setting on the front shocks use, it would be possible to grossly over damp the rear suspension on initial launch, thereby picking up the rear wheels. The rear SPA1 KONI will "blow off" then, and allow proper "unwinding" of the rear suspension.

WARNING
KONI Series SPA1 shock absorbers are specifically for use in off highway drag race competition only. If used on public highways, loss of vehicle control and consequent personal injuries may result.

i have been thinking about what struts and shock to buy for my car for a long time. The $$$$ is the reason i have been holding on from buying until i get the best item for the money i will spend. I Drag race only so all i want to get is better 60 and ET. I was thinking of Tokico D-spec for the $$$ reason. They are cheap compare to QA1 and i can use my Cobra Jet springs with them, but i tought QA1 were lighter and better for drag Racing due to the dual adjustment but now i am confused just a little bit.

I guess i will go with the Tokico D-spec and do the best i can with those. Thanks for the info....

 

[SD07GT]

Theres no matching the M3 in terms of suspension against the mustang.

We dont have electronic adjustable dampers like the M3 does, nor zee german engineering.

Mustang is built for every range of demographic. I think they did a good job on that setup.

The M3 is built as a performance oriented sports car. Ours is just a Gran Touring everyday car.

If you want better suspensioin....MOD IT!!

There was only a 0.09 difference in lap time basically a tie , after that performance and the money it cost for a new M3 I wouldnt be to proud if I was Bmw !

O by the way the braking and skid pad numbers were better also while the 0-60 and 1/4 mile test were basically a tie .


you can buy two 5.0 for one M3 .....Now go mod the 5.0 in the suspension department and put a hurting on the M3.

The bad thing about the M3 is you really cant go modding that suspension very much .....already has 35 series tires , electronic struts and shock which CAN NOT BE CHANGED due to the fact its all tied in together with the traction control and the electronic stabilizer system and the car sits pretty low where it will scrape all over the place if you go any lower for the street. I dont know about the sway bars that are in the car .


Forgot about the 5.0 still has the live axle in back also (lol) Bmw just toss everthing in the trash and start over because for 60k it not showing much anymore.

 

[Chris B.]

I have to agree, putting the Konis on my car helped quite a bit. Even when I only had the rear shocks on the car set at full soft, it felt like a different car.

 

[foolio2k4]

There was only a 0.09 difference in lap time basically a tie , after that performance and the money it cost for a new M3 I wouldnt be to proud if I was Bmw !

O by the way the braking and skid pad numbers were better also while the 0-60 and 1/4 mile test were basically a tie .


you can buy two 5.0 for one M3 .....Now go mod the 5.0 in the suspension department and put a hurting on the M3.

The bad thing about the M3 is you really cant go modding that suspension very much .....already has 35 series tires , electronic struts and shock which CAN NOT BE CHANGED due to the fact its all tied in together with the traction control and the electronic stabilizer system and the car sits pretty low where it will scrape all over the place if you go any lower for the street. I dont know about the sway bars that are in the car .


Forgot about the 5.0 still has the live axle in back also (lol) Bmw just toss everthing in the trash and start over because for 60k it not showing much anymore.

sure i agree with you there. For the money, theres no beating the 5.0 against the M3. But there are other factors besides quantitative numbers. Mainly, driving feel and feedback from the car. Pobst said it best, the M3 gave better confidence and feel at high speeds. Something any driver wants and every car engineer strives for.

another great comparison is with the Porsche GT3 and a GTR. Everyone knows the GT3 to be a "drivers car." and rightfully so. Every driver praises it for its precise feedback and control. Race car driver and Le Mans winner, Justin bell said it best, he said theres a synchronicity between you as a driver and the machine you drive. and the gt3 offers that precise input and control any drivers want.

But just about every comparison shows that the GTR is quicker around just about any track. Evo magazine, autocar, top gear, etc. Not to mention its cheaper.

Is the price premium for the M3 worth it over the 5.0 because of the intangibles it provides? Not for me. I'd take the 5.0. Im just providing a different perspective from what we are all used to. But i sure as hell would love to have a GT3.

Btw, many still praise the M3. Motortrend, i believe, did a recent shootout of the m3 vs ctsv coupe, and RS5(i think it was) and beat out all its competitors.

 

[Sam Strano]

I drove a GT3 earlier this year. It's an awesome car, and one I'd love to have because it is a driver's car.

Stock, the Mustang isn't that much a driver's car because it lacks the stability and feel that really allow you to tell what's going on. The Brembo car has nice steering heft, but I think is devoid of a lot of feel. But that's not what I didn't like about the car stock. I hated the same thing Randy didn't like which is why my car had Koni's on it ASAP after getting it, which allowed me to drive it with more confidence and not just when autocrossing, but on my daily drive to and from work (which is a hell of a fun PA back road).

 

[Sam Strano]

And here's the video of the laps. You can plainly see the movement and lack of set the Mustang has vs. the M3.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...stang_gt_vs_2011_bmw_m3_comparison/index.html

Pay particular attention to what Randy says @ 7:20-7:25, that sums it up.

 

[Sleeper_08]

Sam

Thanks for posting this.

So with a set of Koni Yellows and the right springs the GT should easily beat the M3!

 

[kyoshosp2]

Sam I have a 2011 with billet lower arms adjustable pan hard , ford racing springs .. I have a cadillac ride in the front and a floating feeling I don't like. I have some Koni adjustibles to put on the rear. Will that get rid of the nose dive! She gets squirlly when o brake hard from high rates of speed. Do u have adj koni's for the front of 2011s yet?

 

[Germeezy3]

I drove a GT3 earlier this year. It's an awesome car, and one I'd love to have because it is a driver's car.

Stock, the Mustang isn't that much a driver's car because it lacks the stability and feel that really allow you to tell what's going on. The Brembo car has nice steering heft, but I think is devoid of a lot of feel. But that's not what I didn't like about the car stock. I hated the same thing Randy didn't like which is why my car had Koni's on it ASAP after getting it, which allowed me to drive it with more confidence and not just when autocrossing, but on my daily drive to and from work (which is a hell of a fun PA back road).

In my experience with my Corvette I found that a good set of shocks can improve the handling and be lowered and be as good if not better than the stock car as far as ride quality. How does your 2011 Mustang GT do as far as ride quality once the shocks were switched since the factory shocks are much better than usual?

 

[Germeezy3]

sure i agree with you there. For the money, theres no beating the 5.0 against the M3. But there are other factors besides quantitative numbers. Mainly, driving feel and feedback from the car. Pobst said it best, the M3 gave better confidence and feel at high speeds. Something any driver wants and every car engineer strives for.

another great comparison is with the Porsche GT3 and a GTR. Everyone knows the GT3 to be a "drivers car." and rightfully so. Every driver praises it for its precise feedback and control. Race car driver and Le Mans winner, Justin bell said it best, he said theres a synchronicity between you as a driver and the machine you drive. and the gt3 offers that precise input and control any drivers want.

But just about every comparison shows that the GTR is quicker around just about any track. Evo magazine, autocar, top gear, etc. Not to mention its cheaper.

Is the price premium for the M3 worth it over the 5.0 because of the intangibles it provides? Not for me. I'd take the 5.0. Im just providing a different perspective from what we are all used to. But i sure as hell would love to have a GT3.

Btw, many still praise the M3. Motortrend, i believe, did a recent shootout of the m3 vs ctsv coupe, and RS5(i think it was) and beat out all its competitors.

Plus 1 for you, a Z06 will slap around a GT3 even on a lot of race tracks but it won't give you the intimate feel and feedback a GT3 will. The M3 is not competition for the Mustang and will never be its the ultimate expression of an entry level luxury sports sedan. The Mustang is now the best GT ever and great to be so close to the M3 but they are in different classes.

Comparing cars in different classes not looking at the intangibles and only comparing performance numbers is pretty stupid IMHO. The 3 fastest production cars at the Ring are the GT2 RS, Viper ACR, and Corvette ZR1. Based strictly on numbers you could not justify how the Porsche costs twice as much as the other two. But the intangibles are what justify the Porsche's cost!

 

[kyoshosp2]

Ride is nice and soft.. just lots of nose dive. I figured with the springs it would be less but i was wrong.

 

[Random Asshole]

I read most of the replies, but not all of them, so forgive me if this has been covered:

Ahem,
Look at the markets and mindset for the two cars/manufacturers.
BMW= Hailed as the "drivers machine". Designed to be an ultimate as-is flogging machine, but bought by people that generally can't drive worth a shit, anyways. So whatever.

Ford Mustang= Mostly marketed/designed as a bad ass daily driver for "Mr. Big Mac and a large Fry" with minimal market for corner carvers (respectively). That's where you, me, Sam, etc come in, swap out shocks and go kick some nazi ass on the track.

Who the car designed for as a market whole is where the all the differences come to play. You can't make everyone happy, especially when we carvers are the minority in this game.

Peace,
I'm Audi 5000

 

[pcdrj]

Speaking of intangibles, I get way more satisfaction by passing a GT3 in my Mustang than I would passing a Mustang in a GT3. Something about an over achieving sleeper just earns my loyalty.

 

[Random Asshole]

Speaking of intangibles, I get way more satisfaction by passing a GT3 in my Mustang than I would passing a Mustang in a GT3. Something about an over achieving sleeper just earns my loyalty.

Fuckin aye.

 

[Germeezy3]

Speaking of intangibles, I get way more satisfaction by passing a GT3 in my Mustang than I would passing a Mustang in a GT3. Something about an over achieving sleeper just earns my loyalty.

I agree wholeheartedly!

 

[Rapid]

After upgrading the shocks to the Koni Sports. What front bar would be best?

Would going to a stiffer front bar w/o changing the rear do any good?

I am in a stock 2010 GT and want to stay in F stock.

 

[Sam Strano]

I'm playing with a number of front bars myself, and haven't completely decided. I can say that a lot stiffer front bar isn't ideal, but there is something different about the stock front bar in that it doesn't move freely as you'd expect. That adds some response and roll stiffness to the car and I've currently got 4 different front bars I'm playing with---but still think my Adjustable 35 (34.9) is the best of the bunch.

 

[Rapid]

Thanks and congratulations for the Nationals, again!

I am trying to move from 2nd to first in my local autocrosses and am looking for some tweeks. It is painful to loose by a few tenths.

Tires and Konis are first.

 

[Sam Strano]

Is the car bone stock? Do you have an alignment? Not that you can do much until you open the bottom hole on the strut as per Ford's service manual and run their cam bolt kit. But that would help, a lot. Note that when you get Koni's you'll have to do that work again on those.

 

[Rapid]

Bone stock. Stock tires. Last track day has almost got me ready for the new tires.

It does have the 19 inch wheels which gained me a strut brace. Ive been reading about the alignment. What camber to you recommend?

Does the newer cam bolt hold or do those folks who have had slipping problems make a mistake?