UPR

[SilverHorseRacing]

Weatherman, I would ask that you read the below as a spirited debate, and not a personal affront, because that is exactly how it is meant. I harbor no ill thoughts towards you (I don't even know you) but just want to clarify what you are arguing in favor of with some facts.

What you are talking about has been hashed out many times before regarding the pros and cons of even discussing the competition, and yes, I do weigh the options heavily before making public comments. I will just say we've discussed this in many other threads before, and if you would like I would be happy to cut-n-paste my responses to this in the past, as my position has not changed.

What you are arguing for though is not fair competition, you are arguing in defense of a company that is stealing from everyone, you included. You may not see the theft, but let's do a little math to illustrate my point:

Our Fuse Box Cover made in-house which I personally designed and released almost two years ago:

• 79.99-99.99 based on finish (Raw (for painting), Two-tone anodized, or Triple Chrome Plated) (price has remained the same since release)
• Comes packaged bubble-wrapped securely in a custom box, with instructions and 3M double-sided tape already pre-applied for proper installation
• Shipping - Free to the USA.
• Total cost, 79.99 to 99.99.

UPR copy (no R&D, no fixture costs, just measure and have a job shop copy for them since they have no machining capability in-house)

• 74.99 - 99.99 based on finish (from their website on 3-17-12), chrome (our most expensive finish to do) not even available, so they are at best competing against our 89.99 piece as polished vs. chrome is not a fair apples to apples comparison.
• Comes packaged in a brown envelope, with no instructions, no tape, and polishing compound residue still on the back of the piece. Part is not the same level of quality as our original piece based on our analysis, but details of that are being saved for later discussions with UPR.
• Shipping +10.00
• Total cost - 84.99 to 109.99

So if there are ALL those awesome "economies of scale" saving UPR so much money to pass along to the little guy in the name of fair competition that you are arguing in favor of, where are your savings? Ah... they are in their pockets, not yours. They copy a product, cheapen it up, charge the same or within a couple dollars of the original, and pocket, by our estimation, at least 20.00 of additional costs in profit. So who is really looking out for the "little guy"?

• We are perfectly fine with UPR having their own version of a fuse box cover.
• We are perfectly fine with fair competition in the market for a customer.
• We work with many competitors daily (MRT, CDC, JLT, etc) to offer even more products, while respecting the uniqueness of those products already being offered by others.
• We are NOT okay with a company copying our product down to the same font on the engraving, and passing it off as their own.

I will leave you with these thoughts:


1) We do sponsor a couple forums, but I can't be everywhere all the time, so I tend to only sponsor ones I can be personally active on regularly - it's not that I don't like this forum, just there aren't enough hours in the day. This recent "uproar" all over the web has taken way too much of my time already, but is something I feel we must do wherever the discussion goes - we did not start this thread, nor did we dig it back up, I simply replied to it when it was brought to my attention by someone else.

2) You seem to be arguing that if we were a site sponsor our message would be better accepted. So we can buy favor, but simply telling the truth in public is whining about it? Why does money make our argument any more acceptable?

3) I have no problem being a site sponsor here, but in the meantime, I am careful not to post any backlinks or anything that directly link to our site, even in my signature it is edited from what my normal signature is, just to be in compliance.

4) If it were just our company having this issue, I could see that we would look like a whiner if we were going around starting this. But look at the facts just from this thread - we did not start it, we are one of at least four companies dealing with this, and we are all the people who have the passion to get up and do this every day in spite of UPR's actions. As Jay has stated - when the innovators go away to another market (really easy for us as we can make just about anything we want here) where does that leave the customers? Did you end up the ultimate winner when the only game left in town has nobody left to copy from and charges way more than they should for the level of quality they offer?

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

Thanks SHR for your post, i know in the future if i ever decide on any dressup products i will be buying from you.

 

[weather man]

I'm Not a Running Dog Capitalistic Pig...O.K. maybe a little

Dear SHR

Naw...I'm a retired Senior NCO and our construction company survived the great recession...thin skinned I'm not

Do I admire a company that blatantly copies...No. Taking market share from your competitor and the word "fair" have nothing in common. Now Be truthful...if your company had a the only billet fuse cover on the market, would it cost $85 to $110?

Does it stick in your throat like fish bone when they rip your design off? Yeah, I probably can't imagine that sting. You've already made the calculation that the opportunity cost of pursuing legal action isn't worth it.

My personal take, still, is that it hurts you more than it hurts UPR, to be the victim.

Comes packaged bubble-wrapped securely in a custom box, with instructions and 3M double-sided tape already pre-applied for proper installation
Comes packaged in a brown envelope, with no instructions, no tape, and polishing compound residue still on the back of the piece. Part is not the same level of quality as our original piece based on our analysis

YES!!!! This is how you win the war. Relentless, Quality Quality Quality at a fair price hammered over and over: this is a concept that people with money to spend can and will give you their money for. The JLT rep has this concept down cold.

Does the fact that UPR spend money to help keep this site running mean they shouldn't have to be dumped on by a competitor who isn't a sponsor. My answer is yes. Coldly put, money talks, bullshit walks. If you are a sponsor, have at it.

I personally wish you and your company the best of luck. I hope you come up with a fiendishly "unfair" way to steal market share from UPR and all your competitor's! Good Luck!!

 

[merk]

Tucker, I understand where the vendors being ''copied'' are coming from. I just think there are better ways to prove to the consumer that your product is better then the competition. Customer service and quality go a long way. But coming on a forum and basing the competition is not a effective way to market you are your parts.

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

I think if someone copies your part you have every right to bash the shit out of them. Why should they make a profit on something you did the r&d on. Ethics and morals go a long way.

 

[merk]

Ethics and morals do go a long way. Both both of those are subjective. My comments are just my opinion. Im not saying coping designs is right. I would still like to know if the parts had a patent or copyright attached to them.

 

[weather man]

It is all about perception

My argument to SHR isn't about if they were wronged by UPR. It is pretty obvious they were and equally obvious, I suspect, that UPR wishes they had never copied the infamous fuse cover. It really was a boneheaded business decision.

It is that a small company has limited resources (people, time) and money. A small company is always battling to prove to you, the consumer, that they large enough to be a reliable company to do business with.

Raise your hand if you have been on a website, or made a phone call to a small outfit, and wondered if giving them your hard earned money was a really good idea. Ever walk away because it didn't seem right...I have.

Anyway, why doesn't SHR just sue UPR for violating trademark? Two words...opportunity cost, what the hell is that you say? It is the time spent, mental energy spent, money spent, travel and everything else involved with suing a fellow competitor vs. how that precious time, money and energy could have been used to improve your company. If your the guy who's personal design is getting ripped, well, you can imagine how enraging an exercise that could be.

Back in the real world, where all your competitor's (not just UPR) are trying to kick your ass, once you have made that decision not to litigate, you have to move on. I do believe naming a specific competitor is a mistake. SHR appears to be very focused on providing a quality product with superior customer service. If someone see's SHR in any fashion, that is the message I would want them to remember, bringing a disliked competitor into that message dilutes it and is a waste of the precious time mentioned above. That is the message that allowed our company to survive.

With these comments I am done being a hardass...I get enough of this crap talking with my brothers on how our company can avoid getting its ass kicked in the construction world. Good luck to both UPR and SHR. They and all the other companies are fighting for our hard earned buck. May the best managed company win! I need a beer.

 

[Robstang]

Well, all I know is that the Camaro copied the Mustang and that I got the right one!

 

[SilverHorseRacing]

Weatherman,

You are not being a hardass in any way - your opinion is one I fully understand and respect (and to an extent agree with), and as I said, we fight internally constantly with whether to give our friends in S. FL the time of day or not. Yes, I do take it personally when a design that I came up with is copied to the extent this piece was, and yes, I'm hoping that they learn we are not an easy target for their copying efforts, although I've thought that before...

I've promised a newsletter release for a couple days now, but have been busy getting our newest piece of equipment ready to add to our capabilities (hint - sharks with laser beams have nothing on us now!) The newsletter will be released tomorrow, and it is huge news (unrelated to the sharks!). It is a major announcement for us regarding just who our customers are, one that has been 8 months in development, and one our competitor can't even attempt to make, nor ever will be able to since they are just "middle men".

That said, I took to heart your comment on the size issue, and will be making some revisions in the near future to our company descriptions, as they have evolved over time as we have as a company. While we're not some big conglomerate, we have been growing despite the economy, and the newsletter that gets released tomorrow should put an end to the argument of us not being "big enough" to be cost-competitive, which has really never been the case. Add to that our television debut in a supporting role on the new show "Dream Machines" thar airs on April 10th, and I think it is time for some much-needed updates.

Also, unrelated... thank you for your service to our country. We do have an unadvertised military discount that we offer, as well as shipping to APO's at no additional cost over domestic shipments whenever possible - it's not a lot, but it's how we try to show our appreciation now that I am no longer in the business of keeping our military supplied on a daily basis.

Merk, it's been discussed in many places, but to directly answer your question, the answer is no. The products in question did not carry a trademark or patent. We do have two U.S. Patents on our products, neither of which apply to this particular piece. There are many reasons for this, but for the most part, other companies in the game that want to make their own piece normally make one that looks different, as to make it "theirs". We are absolutely fine with competition that offers choice in the market. One company however tries to emulate everyone else and even uses keywords in their descriptions in an effort to snare the unsuspecting buyer to the point of selling their products under another trade name even though they are both incorporated under the same ownership in Florida. They don't want to be different, they just are out to make a quick buck by circumventing all the effort that goes into a new product and pocketing the difference. Having been in the hobby since I was 15, and still having my first Mustang, that doesn't sit well with me, because way too many times I was burned by companies selling those types of products. It is what drove me to found our company, and is what drives me to produce the products to the level we do every day.

In closing... I'll leave you with the words from the competition from a thread that was deleted recently on another forum (one of many they are having their lawyers try to have scrubbed from the Internet)... imagine having to be the guy that tries to spin this when 8 posts back we disproved their stated business plan with just two minutes of research. Furthermore, ask yourself why as a forum sponsor aren't they here defending their actions on this product? If they are so proud of their actions, why not come here and defend them?

This fuse box cover situation is unfortunate. While what we did was perfectly legal, I can understand why silverhorse is upset about it and why many of you are put off by it. Although this situation certainly doesn't make my job any easier, it doesn't change what I think about UPR Products. UPR's business plan has always been to offer great parts for less.

 

[SilverHorseRacing]

Now Be truthful...if your company had a the only billet fuse cover on the market, would it cost $85 to $110?

BTW - I saw this after the last post and felt it deserved attention.

To answer the question truthfully, you need look no further than our actions when we were the only fuse cover for 2010+ cars. (the same is true for our 2005+ fuel doors, switch plates, lock pockets, etc.. all when we were the first to market and the "only" game in town)

Our price has not changed in 2 years. Since we are the manufacturer, and I am the lead designer, we don't have to pay an outside firm to design or reverse-engineer it. We don't have to pay the machine shop to make the part for us, which has to make a profit, then pay ourselves a profit, before selling it to our dealers that have to make a profit. We cut out at least two layers due to vertical integration, still have enough left in there to add finishing (triple-chrome plating in the USA is not cheap) and still offer the product at a price that obviously the "low cost option" guys can't beat. If you remove the chrome plating, which even in bulk for us is still expensive, our price absolutely crushes "their" price.

I hope this shows that we do try to offer the highest quality products, while asking what we feel is a fair price that allows the most people to be able to afford our products even when there is no competition in the segment. I am not a believer in "early adopter" pricing - ask a fair price for your work from the beginning that you can maintain throughout the life cycle of the product. It has allowed us to keep prices *almost* unchanged even though our costs of doing business have changed greatly through the years. Every step we take in increasing productivity is another step towards holding our prices steady even in the face of otherwise rising costs.

Maybe the real question to our competitors should be,"If you by your own admission didn't have to design it, and you are so big on buying in bulk and passing along the savings to customers, why then is your piece more than the original?" - inquiring minds would like to know...

 

[weather man]

Sunglasses Required!

Quality product -- Excellent customer service -- Fair Pricing = Winner

Look to the horizon good sir, for the future shines brightly before you and your troubles lay behind!

 

[Tucker]

Tucker, I understand where the vendors being ''copied'' are coming from. I just think there are better ways to prove to the consumer that your product is better then the competition. Customer service and quality go a long way. But coming on a forum and basing the competition is not a effective way to market you are your parts.

Ethics and morals do go a long way. Both both of those are subjective. My comments are just my opinion. Im not saying coping designs is right. I would still like to know if the parts had a patent or copyright attached to them.

I'm not here pushing any product or bashing anyone. I've not used poor language or said anything false.

What I'm here to say is there are things customers should know. Keeping it "behind the scenes" does nothing good for the customer or the company being copied, but only allows the company doing the copying to hide in the shadows and continue to sell knocked off parts without customers knowing.

I have felt this way for a long time. I even called a direct competitor back in 2005 when I saw another well known copy cat knock off his intake.

It's wrong and all should know.

We do use good products and customer service speak for us as well does SHR, Metco and others.
We are all VERY small comapnies being knocked off by a HUGE manufacture. That's when it hurts even more for everyone. The more it happens the less we want to come up with new products for you!

I know SHR has posted this already, but I'll say it again.
Patents take a long time to go through and cost lots of money. It's best to be "first to market" with a new innovative quality part.
Spending $15-20,000 for a patent and waiting up to 2 years to be able to realease it is a big mistake and misconception among customers.

Once a product is on the market for 1 year without a patent, it's not available for a petent and can be copied by anyone.

It's a double lose.
Apply and pay for the patent, but wait to sell
Or
Sell first and hope know one knocks it off
Either way we are open to lose money, now or later.

All the copy cats in the world have to do is wait for us to develop the part, let it sell, see who's sells the best, buy one, copy it and sell it.
Easy!

My stand on this will never change. If I'm copied, I'm outing the company in public. Let the customer decide who's to buy.
What I'll never understand is when we "out" the copy cat were whining.

Purchase from JLT and you get my part, my passion and my support. The same passion that I fight with to defend my product.


Thank you
Jay

 

[ctt326]

SHR, looks like I'll be purchasing one of your fuse box covers here soon!

 

[merk]

I'm not here pushing any product or bashing anyone. I've not used poor language or said anything false.

What I'm here to say is there are things customers should know. Keeping it "behind the scenes" does nothing good for the customer or the company being copied, but only allows the company doing the copying to hide in the shadows and continue to sell knocked off parts without customers knowing.

I have felt this way for a long time. I even called a direct competitor back in 2005 when I saw another well known copy cat knock off his intake.

It's wrong and all should know.

We do use good products and customer service speak for us as well does SHR, Metco and others.
We are all VERY small comapnies being knocked off by a HUGE manufacture. That's when it hurts even more for everyone. The more it happens the less we want to come up with new products for you!

I know SHR has posted this already, but I'll say it again.
Patents take a long time to go through and cost lots of money. It's best to be "first to market" with a new innovative quality part.
Spending $15-20,000 for a patent and waiting up to 2 years to be able to realease it is a big mistake and misconception among customers.

Once a product is on the market for 1 year without a patent, it's not available for a petent and can be copied by anyone.

It's a double lose.
Apply and pay for the patent, but wait to sell
Or
Sell first and hope know one knocks it off
Either way we are open to lose money, now or later.

All the copy cats in the world have to do is wait for us to develop the part, let it sell, see who's sells the best, buy one, copy it and sell it.
Easy!

My stand on this will never change. If I'm copied, I'm outing the company in public. Let the customer decide who's to buy.
What I'll never understand is when we "out" the copy cat were whining.

Purchase from JLT and you get my part, my passion and my support. The same passion that I fight with to defend my product.


Thank you
Jay

From what I have heard you do have a quality product and great customer service. I understand you position and I was just stating my opinion sir.

 

[FAST3V]

I like how this thread was brought back from 2 years ago, and got more action now, than it did two years ago LOL.

The theme in this thread is no different than business in any industry. It is the same in EVERY industry. There shouldn't be any pointing fingers to anyone.

Leave buying decisions up to the people.

Let innovators be proud of what they created from nothing, and feel flattered from others making shit just like it.

Let other people re-create existing products and try and beat the innovators. If they do great for them, if they don't then its not hard to see why.

All in all..the consumer will decide what the best product, for the right price is at that time.

 

[05stroker]

Wish i would have before I bought the UPR tensioner. I now know that it doesn't hold the belt tight enough and lets the belt squeak unless you remove the set screw so the unit can hold the belt tighter. JMO though as a UPR part owner. (by the way, new stock belt size)

PS: UPR can feel free to contact me and send me the proper working part at any time they wish and I will not bitch about it a bit.

For what it is worth, UPR saw the above post and contacted me. They have sent me a new updated part. They also reminded me that everything they manufacturer has a lifetime warranty. I thank Jeremy at UPR for this.

On another note, I am very happy with my BMR parts that are all over my car and agree with them that when people want to copy something you have created well, that is when you know your shit rocks! Thanks to BMR for there great products that are all over my car as well.

 

[Tre06GTP1SC]

On another note, I am very happy with my BMR parts that are all over my car and agree with them that when people want to copy something you have created well, that is when you know your shit rocks! Thanks to BMR for there great products that are all over my car as well.

+1

Minus the springs and shocks, everything else suspension wise on my car is BMR

 

[Tucker]

Let innovators be proud of what they created from nothing, and feel flattered from others making shit just like it.

It's never flattering to be ripped off, sorry. Your never going to find a manufacturer who was ripped off that is flattered.
Money is lost, that's never flattering.

I find it funny UPR was "trying" to defend themself in the resurection of this thread until the companies they ripped off asked them questions.

I'm proud to say I innovate, you can't ever say "I'm proud to copy, lie, cheat or steal."

 

[FAST3V]

Just sayin..

Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

Someone agrees with me.

 

[CPRsm]

I wouldn't be flattered. I'd be pissed also. Could be because of the thousands you spend on set up and months of proto typing. IDK though.