What seats are you running?

[Philostang]

I've run my Kirkey for years and absolutely love it. I wouldn't exactly say it's easy to live with in a car primarily street driven - no, it's a bit of a bear to get in and out over the thigh bolsters, so you're probably back in the hunt for a composite with lower sides. I guess it depends on how much hassle one is willing to live with in a day-to-day setting.

For the passenger side, I got a matching Kirkey, only one that is extra wide to accommodate a variety of passengers and put one of those "stadium seat" foam pads under the cover. The last guy who sat in it exclaimed, "Oh my god, I can't believe how comfortable this thing is!"

Something to consider.

Best,
-j

(edit): +1 to being kind to your instructors. The last car I got in that was mismatched in terms of safety gear made me worried...

 

[Random Asshole]

I've run my Kirkey for years and absolutely love it. I wouldn't exactly say it's easy to live with in a car primarily street driven - no, it's a bit of a bear to get in and out over the thigh bolsters, so you're probably back in the hunt for a composite with lower sides. I guess it depends on how much hassle one is willing to live with in a day-to-day setting.

For the passenger side, I got a matching Kirkey, only one that is extra wide to accommodate a variety of passengers and put one of those "stadium seat" foam pads under the cover. The last guy who sat in it exclaimed, "Oh my god, I can't believe how comfortable this thing is!"

Something to consider.

Best,
-j

(edit): +1 to being kind to your instructors. The last car I got in that was mismatched in terms of safety gear made me worried...

It's a shame your seats aren't in the catalog anymore. I really like the look of them and they are pretty darn comfortable.

 

[Napoleon85]

The solution to save 50% on high end seats.... leave the stock seat on the passenger side and get what you want for the driver.

There is no secret short cut for a great fitting, strong, side-mount, supportive and lightweight racing seat. Anything cheaper than the standard Sparco, Cobra, Racetech, Momo quality composite seats is usually low quality, import stuff - that is almost always total junk. I've tried to do the cheap stuff, the steal framed seats, and even went on an aluminum seat kick for a few years (UltraShield, Kirkey, etc)... but they always have major drawbacks to a high end, fixed back, FIA certified composite seat from one of those 4 manufacturers above. Sucks... but you get what you pay for here.

I definitely agree that's an option, but not one that I particularly like. I feel like it looks crappy/ricey/cheap to have mismatched seats. My car is primarily a street car, so if I can't have a reasonable looking, matching interior - I will just leave it stock. I don't like doing things half-assed.

That could be a little rough on your instructor.... The ONLY time I refused to get into a car was a first-time guy with a BRAND NEW Viper, full containment seat, six points, HANS for him, and a stock leather seat with a three point for me. No thanks.

Nothing in the CCR, but please, at least get something close for those of us in the right seat. Doesn't have to match, make and model, but similar form would be nice. If you have a containment seat, six points, etc., please give us some kind of fixed-back seat, and at least five-point belts. If you show up with an Imola, and give us a Corbeau tube-frame seat, that'll be fine...

This as well. I have been told this before on multiple occasions, and seeing as I'm just getting into road course driving I'm going to need plenty of instruction.

I guess for now it looks like my best option is to just deal with the stock seats, maybe add a 4-6pt MM bar and run a 4pt harness on track days with the stock seats? That should at least provide some extra support.

 

[modernbeat]

I've run my Kirkey for years and absolutely love it...

I LOVE my Kirkey seats also. And have had numerous people tell me they hate Kirkey seats. Turns out I use a Lightweight Deluxe 20degree layback, and most of the haters use the Economy. The difference is like comparing a chase lounge to a stadium seat. One has all the right contours and shapes to hold you and be comfortable, the other is a flat board that makes you want to go buy more beer so you forget the agony.

But, Kirkey's really need to be mounted differently than a composite FIA seat. The aluminum seats require a back brace and it's recommended that any head wings also be supported. I actually prefer an aluminum seat in my dedicated race car which means it is sized exactly for me and mounted very securely.

But, for a dual purpose car it's not easy, comfortable or utilitarian to have all the extra mounts, a seat that only fits one person correctly and ultra deep bolsters, rib supports and halo.

 

[Philostang]

Same here - I picked up a set of the Deluxe Road Race seats before they were phased out. Now it seems Kirkey only offers the "intermediate" version of this seat, which is not as finely contoured, and from there you have to step up to their Road Race Containment seat in the line (at least for the 45 and 47 series seats).

I think most guys going with the Kirkeys are also having to pass tech inspections where back-braces are required. Mine has one and I tell you, strapped into that seat is like being one with the car. I've tossed around the idea of doing a foam/bead insert, but so far this has worked very well. On the passenger side I just set the seat (and back brace) as far back as the factory seat would slide. I figured that would give any passenger plenty of room without having to readjust the back brace.

Kirkey has a host of other seats in different "series" (their moniker), so it would probably help to talk with them. You probably wouldn't want to go with one of those ultra-simple drag-race seats they have...very different from their road race and sprint seats.

I really liked going to a brick-and-mortar shop with displays mounted so you can actually sit in the seats yourself. Or you might make it a point to try out the seats other guys are using (just be sure to confirm which size you're trying out). Whichever route you go it helps to have first-hand (first-butt?) experience with the seats.

Best,
-j

 

[csamsh]

Mark came by Vorshlag today and sat in an Imola Pro-Fit GT... and then a Corbeau seat mounted in another car. I will let him reply.



And yes, the step-over in the Suzuka (above left) is a hassle, but the Imola (above right) is the same seat with just a much lower step-over. Not as much leg support, but much more liveable in a daily driven car.

HA- the Corbeau. Corbeaus aren't the best but that one was SPECIAL. The car wasn't even moving but when I rocked side to side the back probably deflected 30 degrees in either direction.

Once you guys get that bolt in bracket/slider thing going, Imolas for me! Pretty livable I thought compared to the Suzuka, still will have good support though I believe. They look great too.

 

[TGR96]

Bumping this thread again looking for any new feedback. I have a buddy who is gonna buy my stock cloth seats from my base 13 GT, and I am looking to step up my seating game. Have read through this thread (more than once), done some research, and I am at "information overload" status!

My car is a DD, with an autocross thrown in once a month or so. Spirited backroad driving whenever humanly possible. Maybe an HPDE track day in the future. But also daily commuting.

I want a no fuss, bolt in seat for my car. I don't want to have to guess/hope they'll fit, and I don't want to have to fabricate brackets or anything. Like many of you here, one piece, full on racing seats that cost $2K or more are just not in my future. Been thinking hard about Corbeaus, either A4s, CR1s, or TRSs. I have heard some negative feedback on Corbeaus in this thread, but for my use, are they really that bad? I sat in a guys Mustang at Mustang Week who had either A4s or CR1s (can't recall exactly which ones) and I loved them! 1,000,000 better than the stockers, and they are actually affordable.

Unfortunately, there is nowhere around where I live that I can go and sit in several different brands/styles of seats, so I am kinda winging it here. I'm just a shade under 6", around 195 pounds, 34" waist, 44" chest. Anyone out there close to my size that can give me any input, I'd really appreciate it.

 

[Osiris]

I'm about to order a Kirkey 45 series. I'll let you guys know once the build it drivable.

 

[Justin_H]

I want a no fuss, bolt in seat for my car. I don't want to have to guess/hope they'll fit, and I don't want to have to fabricate brackets or anything. Like many of you here, one piece, full on racing seats that cost $2K or more are just not in my future. Been thinking hard about Corbeaus, either A4s, CR1s, or TRSs. I have heard some negative feedback on Corbeaus in this thread, but for my use, are they really that bad? I sat in a guys Mustang at Mustang Week who had either A4s or CR1s (can't recall exactly which ones) and I loved them! 1,000,000 better than the stockers, and they are actually affordable.

Unfortunately, there is nowhere around where I live that I can go and sit in several different brands/styles of seats, so I am kinda winging it here. I'm just a shade under 6", around 195 pounds, 34" waist, 44" chest. Anyone out there close to my size that can give me any input, I'd really appreciate it.

I'm about your size and the suede Corbeau LG1s I had in my 95 would meet most of your criteria. Very comfortable and excellent support, a bit of work to get in/out over the big side bolsters. I made adapters to work with the stock rails, but I can weld. If I had a newer car like yours, I'd probably just shell out the money for the optional Recaros. They're pricey, but they're likely much more durable than the Corbeaus- although I never had any issues with mine. Didn't drive that car much though, and never on track.

Justin

 

[ArizonaGT]

 

[jayel579]

Just bought seats for my car, they are going in next weekend.

Drivers seat I got a Recaro Pro Racer Hans

Passenger seat I got a Cobra Monaco

Mounting everything using stuff from Planted Technology, these are very nice pieces and well worth every penny.

Spent a little bit more for my seat

Belts for now are just Schroth Clubman III, I got a good used set off of someone which will work for the rest of this season. I will flip the new set I bought for me to the passenger side then get a HANS set in the off season. Probably the Schroth Profi III for the drivers side.

 

[GT_350]

I just read thru this thread and thought I’d like to add my two cents. It’s a little more than just seats…..

I looked and found bits and pieces here and there so here's what I know and have done on four cars.

It’s hard to find what is the “ground truth” vs I heard about this once on by buddies car…….

First, follow the link below, or better yet right click and save to your computer, then print and read 15 times. Keep this handy because you’ll refer to this as you make choices on what to buy, dimensions on your cage and then what you need for an install.

Schroth Racing Competition Instructions

Now, some folks will say, you don’t need to follow this, but to the naysayers these instructions follow real world racing experience.

Schroth Racing has tested the seat/ harness location, cage (harness bar) location in relation to each other and found what works.

Remember why we are doing this Driver Safety, no need to reengineer here.........

Now I kind of jumped ahead here, because you really want to start with the seat and how you mount the seat then build the cage/four point roll bar around the seat.

What?

Each seat, like a driver is different, some are tall some are short. The openings on the seat and where the driver’s shoulders are in relation to the opening will dictate the height of the harness bar in the cage.

If you can’t picture this, see above and read the Schroth Racing harness install guidance so the distance from the seat to the harness bar and the angle from the driver’s shoulder in within the tolerances of the guide.

Now first the seat, get the best seat you can afford this doesn’t mean carbon fiber, it means what is the best seat from a safety stand point.

Seat needs to meet one of these three standards;

1. FIA 8855-1999 (updated 14.02.2003) for Competition Seats
2. FIA 8862-2009 for Advanced Racing Seats (updated 04.11.2010) - nothing on the FIA's web site indicates that the Advanced Racing Seats standard superseded the Competition Seats standard
3. SFI 39.2

And if you are going wheel-to-wheel racing it can’t be expired, the seat will have a homologation sticker on it with a date it was manufactured.

FIA seats will expire five years from the date it was made.

Now some clubs/ sanctioning bodies, NASA comes to mind have allowed “expired” seats lives to be extended by another four years. Check the Club Rules and Regulations (CCR) for the series you want to run.

What about HPDE? Most clubs, you are going to find in the CCR if safety equipment is NOT original manufactures equipment (OME) it must meet the CCR for racing with one exception, safety equipment can be expired, as long as it is serviceable. Read the rules for the clubs you run with and make sure you’re in sync if not it will suck if you can’t pass tech.

Any seat that is not FIA homologated or carries the SFI 39.2 spec you need a back brace, it’s your life make the right choice.

So back to the seat my next seat will be a full containment seat:

A full containment seat isn’t required, yet I believe most sanctioning bodies are moving in this direction, but it will provide support and contain your body in a side impact better that a non-containment seat. Halo for lateral head movement and better support for your torso.

My current seat:

Just by looking at the two you can see the benefits for the full containment seat vs the standard seat.

--------------------------------------------

Mounting the seat;

First the base, you can fabricate a seat base:

Not a Mustang but you get the idea.

Or you can use these parts.

SPARCO makes a bolt in seat base for the S197:

Advantage: Bolts in to existing seat mounting points, you would be able to reinstall stock seats. Now using the bracket you can install the OME female three point to the bracket. The stock mounting location is the seat itself.

Yeah, it’s not in the optimal mounting location because the lap belt is going to be raised above the thigh bolster.

Disadvantage: The bracket not bolted flat to the chassis and “could” bend under the forces of an impact.

Watson Racing makes this weld in seat mounts for both sides of the car,

Advantage: Bracket is welded to the chassis maximum strength, you would be able reinstall the stock seats.

Disadvantage: Got to weld them in, but if it’s a DD you can install you carpeting back over the bracket and have a clean install.

--------------------------

OK we’ve picked one of the three options for the seat base, now there are two more options; fixed seat and seat sliders. Again SPARCO has an option if we want sliders.

Here you can see how the sliders mount to the SPARCO bracket or they can be mounted to the fabed base or bolted to the Watson Racing seat base.

The next component for the seat are the seat side mounts,

Here you can see the SPARCO base, sliders and side mounts bolted together,

The seat mounts to the side mounts;

How you adjust the seat, fore/aft/rake is up to you.

------------------

The Harness

SFI Certification - Harness systems may be certified to SFI spec 16.1, and shall bear the appropriate label(s). This certification shall expire on December 31st of the 2nd year, after the year of manufacture. The harness system may be sent to the manufacturer for re-webbing and recertification.

FIA Certification -Harness systems may be homologated by the FIA to specification 8853/98, and shall bear the appropriate label(s). It is recommended that the harness system be replaced every three (3) years, but the mandatory replacement date is the 5th year after production. The expiration date, instead of the date of manufacture, is printed on the FIA label(s).

If you are using a HANS Device make sure the harness is HANS compatible!

Four Point Harnesses are not an option I would use; I’ll leave this one right here.

Five Point or Six Point, this is a comfort/driver preference the fifth/sixth point(s) are there to prevent the driver from “submarineing” under the lap belt, causing damage to internal organs.

I prefer a six point harness with a cam lock, my harness.

PROFI-IIA

This particular harness will allow for either the driver to pull up to tighten the lap belt or to pull down to tighten the lap belt.

I don’t have a pit crew so my belt is configured for pull up.

Read the description on the belt before you buy, a cheaper harness isn’t any less safe, but it may have different features and you don’t what buyer’s remorse if you can’t tighten up the lap belt!

Choose wisely so it meets your needs.

I’ll give some options in a second on how to mount the harness but before I make sure you understand the how to mount/configure/wear either the five or six point harness.

The mounting locations are critical because you want to avoid “de-gloving” . Here’s what can happen if you don’t wear the harness correctly. I’ll know if anyone reads this post because this is very graphic and is sure to have a response!

Scrotal injury following restrained impact: A risk of misnavigation
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1572346106002236

Not to worry because you read the install guide and know how to mount wear the harness.

---------------------------

Mounting the harness, remember that install guide open it up again, and read the directions…….

Options for mounting the fixed points to the car, you want FIA Speced stuff not “Big Box” hardware store stuff!

Eye bolts

Backing plate with captive nut

Eyebolt with washer

Go here for more hardware……

Schroth Racing Hardware Guide

Now……….Looking where to install the harness mounting points, driver's side by the door how do I mount the eye bolt?

The chassis in that location is double walled so how do I mount a bolt through eyebolt?

There’s the stock mounting location that's strong enough; Ford Racing uses this location for the FR500C/S, Boss 302R/S but is metric 10mm x 1.5mm thread and all of the available stuff is 7/16" UNF.

You could drill and tap that’s what I did once……

Then I found this

Grayston Engineering
GE50AMX
Metric seatbelt eyebolt 10mm x 1.5mm thread 23mm thread length

And yes it’s FIA spec………..

The problem? They don’t sell to the public.

The only place I found that eye bolt is Rally Nuts in the UK

Click on the size selector and you’ll see the 10mm eye bolt you need.

For the other two or three positions depending if you use a five or six point harness you will have to drill in the car……………….look at the guide with the seats installed, measure a bunch of times then......drill.

Yes there’s other options; guys that make clips that mount to stock bolt locations, but those options are not FIA homologated options and you are placing your life in someone’s unproven design.

There’s a crap load of stuff that I know I’m not putting in this little primer, if you have a question or a disagreement with something I’ve written please let me know I’m always out to learn.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

Holy Balls!!

Aside from that, great post packed full of information. Thanks.

Any thoughts on Schroths ASM technology and their 4 point.

 

[GT_350]

Aside from that, great post packed full of information. Thanks.

Any thoughts on Schroths ASM technology and their 4 point.

There's always controversy when talking about 4 point systems.

From the NASA 2013.2 CCR, para 11.3.2.

The driver and any passenger must utilize modern style stock seatbelts in very good condition, or a DOT approved restraint system, while operating a vehicle on the track. ​

Lap belts used without any shoulder restraints are not permitted. ​

Restraint system requirements are listed in Section #11.4.8. ​

The only four-point belt systems that are allowed for use in HPDE / TT are 1) those that carry an “FIA B-xxx.T/08 certification, or 2) those that carry a label from the belt manufacturer stating that the belts meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 209 AND that the belts were designated for the specific vehicle (e.g. “For use only in BMW E36 models”). ​

Such label must be easily visible to the NASA inspector.​

Note- four-point belt sets that have a DOT-only certification are not allowed.​

-----------------------

So if you want to use these belts they have to have;

• An FIA B-xxx.T/08 certification
• Carry a label from the belt manufacturer stating that the belts meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 209
• And that the belts were designated for the specific vehicle (e.g. “For use only in BMW E36 models”).

Now look at the Schroth Racing Fitment Guide, there no listing for a 2005+ S197 chassis, the only Mustang listed in their guide are the 85-93 Mustang LX stock seats OK, and the 85-93 Mustang GT which needs an approved seat.

So showing up at a NASA event your car would not pass the tech inspection and not be allowed on track.

I would assume other clubs have a similar ruling you would have to check.

Speaking personally now if you can't afford/justify need/need the car as a DD and really don't need the harness, harness bar, seating......get a CG Lock for track days/autocross you'll be happier in the end.

You'll retain all the safety equipment installed and be held in place.

 

[Mike K]

Holy information batman! Thanks for that post.

 

[Mach2burnout]

The CG Lock is a great piece for someone starting out auto xing or a single track day for beginners. Other than that I can't recommend it. Once you learn a little and confirm that you will continue to 'race' in some form or another I suggest getting some real harnesses and racing seats.




Sent from iPhone

 

[GT_350]

The CG Lock is a great piece for someone starting out auto xing or a single track day for beginners. Other than that I can't recommend it. Once you learn a little and confirm that you will continue to 'race' in some form or another I suggest getting some real harnesses and racing seats.

...........if you can't afford/justify need/need the car as a DD and really don't need the harness, harness bar, seating......get a CG Lock for track days/autocross you'll be happier in the end.

Some folks don't have the disposable income for seats/harness/harness bar or cage.

My comment was directed at dontlifttoshift's question about using a Schroth 4 Point Harness, that setup won't pass tech at a NASA event and more than likely it won't with other clubs either.

So unless he want's to go out and send a few grand the GC Lock is the BEST BANG for the buck.

 

[Mach2burnout]

...........if you can't afford/justify need/need the car as a DD and really don't need the harness, harness bar, seating......get a CG Lock for track days/autocross you'll be happier in the end.

Some folks don't have the disposable income for seats/harness/harness bar or cage.

My comment was directed at dontlifttoshift's question about using a Schroth 4 Point Harness, that setup won't pass tech at a NASA event and more than likely it won't with other clubs either.

So unless he want's to go out and send a few grand the GC Lock is the BEST BANG for the buck.

I stand by my statement brother. I agree it does give you the most bang for the buck, if you want to go that route. I did for a season and a half of auto xing. But, they fall apart rather quickly, and mine would not stay on. I was constantly having to reinstall it. Again for a beginner just finding out what its all about, great deal.

 

[steveespo]

Running a Sparco Ergo (large). I am a rather large fellow 6'-1" 275lbs and this seat is perfect for me. I have a Sparco base and slider setup. Seat has removable halo and is FIA certified. Put a Boss Recaro on the passenger side and saved 36 lbs over my stock 401A premium power seats harnesses included.





Steve

 

[Renesis07]

Corbeau LG1 (wide)