When is an oil cooler needed?

[19COBRA93]

You may want to let the guys at Ford Racing and some of Ford's engineers know, since the 3v's do indeed have an oil cooler. Ever notice how on the track oil temps track within about 10 degrees or so of coolant temps? You can thank that nice, efficient little heat exchanger that is an integral part of the oil filter mount on the block. It also brings the oil up to temp quicker in cold weather.

You really need to check your facts. 3V's certainly do NOT have oil coolers. If you're referring to the adaptor that bolts to the block, that is not an oil cooler or exchanger. If you'd like to see an actual OEM cooler, look at any of the 4V's. They all have them (4.6 and 5.4), and are very different from the 3V adaptor.

3V = No oil cooler from the factory. This is a fact.

 

[Chim-Chim]

You really need to check your facts. 3V's certainly do NOT have oil coolers. If you're referring to the adaptor that bolts to the block, that is not an oil cooler or exchanger. If you'd like to see an actual OEM cooler, look at any of the 4V's. They all have them (4.6 and 5.4), and are very different from the 3V adaptor.

3V = No oil cooler from the factory. This is a fact.

Uh, OK. You keep on thinking that. I'll stick with what Ford and Ford Racing told me after this exact discussion came up on Cornercarvers.com 2-3 years ago (and it was confirmed that the 3v does have an oil-to-coolant heat exchanger).

 

[19COBRA93]

Uh, OK. You keep on thinking that. I'll stick with what Ford and Ford Racing told me after this exact discussion came up on Cornercarvers.com 2-3 years ago (and it was confirmed that the 3v does have an oil-to-coolant heat exchanger).

Then 2-3 years ago you were told wrong. You can listen to what people tell you all day long from a non-mustang site, but I personally have taken apart and built NUMEROUS 3V's and I promise you that they don't have oil coolers from the factory. Only the 4V's do (99-01 Cobra, 03-04 Cobra and Mach's, 07-11 GT500's).

Where is said oil cooler supposed to reside? There isn't one. I promise, I guarantee it. I've destroyed these motors, I've disassembled these motors, I've built these motors, I am a Ford parts salesman, I am a Ford Racing dealer, I race these cars, I know without a doubt, they do not have oil coolers.

Feel free to find said heat exchanger. A pic, a part number, any sort of evidence that it exists. It's not there.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to argue, I'm just letting you know you've been given some bad information and I'm trying to correct that. Give me the benefit of the doubt, take a few minutes, google search or whatever you need to do and you'll see that what I'm telling you is correct.

 

[DusterRT]

After looking at the engine service manual and such, I'm going to have to say I don't see anything resembling a cooler/heat exchanger in there. Perhaps the oil filter/radiator hose adapter functions a tiny bit as a heat sink, but I can't see that doing a lot of good honestly, not a lot of shared surface area.

Chim, do you have a link to that CC thread by chance?

 

[colorado pony]

oil temps

at what temp do you need a oil cooler"?

above 250 degress????? regular oil???? how about mobel 1 ?/// what temp ranges for synthetic oils????

 

[argonaut]

at what temp do you need a oil cooler"?

above 250 degress????? regular oil???? how about mobel 1 ?/// what temp ranges for synthetic oils????

There is considerable debate on this subject and you will not find a definitive answer. I've heard and read information published by manufacturers and knowledgable folks that the best synthetics can take 300 degrees without breaking down. But I've also read that its not the temp that the oil can take but rather the temp that the engine can take - lots of o-rings, seals and such will begin to break down when exposed to very high temps for extended periods. Reading on this subject for several years and talking with folks at the tracks, the guidelines go like this:
- If you are seeing oil temps in the 270-300+ range - you must install a cooler
- 240-270 - better start thinking about it, you are a good candidate for one.
- Never see 240...don't worry about it.

Note this is based on the use of good synthetics. Dino oil (with a few exceptions - can you say Brad Penn Oil) generally break down at lower temps and as far as I know aren't used by many track day guys.

 

[Sky Render]

There is considerable debate on this subject and you will not find a definitive answer. I've heard and read information published by manufacturers and knowledgable folks that the best synthetics can take 300 degrees without breaking down. But I've also read that its not the temp that the oil can take but rather the temp that the engine can take - lots of o-rings, seals and such will begin to break down when exposed to very high temps for extended periods. Reading on this subject for several years and talking with folks at the tracks, the guidelines go like this:
- If you are seeing oil temps in the 270-300+ range - you must install a cooler
- 240-270 - better start thinking about it, you are a good candidate for one.
- Never see 240...don't worry about it.

Note this is based on the use of good synthetics. Dino oil (with a few exceptions - can you say Brad Penn Oil) generally break down at lower temps and as far as I know aren't used by many track day guys.

Good info. Remember that even though synthetic oil doesn't break down as easily, it still gets thinner as temperatures increase.

 

[Sky Render]

Looks like the engineers that designed the new Coyote motors recommend oil coolers for road course applications, which is probably why the BOSS comes with one:

Consideration was given to an external oil cooler, but ultimately it was decided not to penalize all Coyote buyers for the occasional antics of a miniscule fraction of owners. Oil temperature rises precipitously when the Coyote is revved more than 4,500 rpm for extended periods, and then an external oil-to-air cooler is vital. But those conditions can only be reached on a road-racing track, so the expensive cooler was ditched and engine management strategies were used to protect the engine during hot idles. However, the mounting area for the cooler was "protected" during the 2011 Mustang's development. That makes it easier for the open-trackers among us to fit a cooler (highly recommended by Coyote engine designers), and tells you something about Ford's intentions for special editions of the Coyote-powered Mustangs.

And don't worry about the occasional open-track without an oil cooler. The engineers say the oil cools quickly as soon as you take your foot out of it, and the engine management will limit the torque output if the oil gets too hot.

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/te...ustang_gt_50_coyote_engine/coyote_oiling.html

 

[almost heaven]

What a beautiful motor...

 

[Norm Peterson]

Looks like the engineers that designed the new Coyote motors recommend oil coolers for road course applications, which is probably why the BOSS comes with one:

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/te...ustang_gt_50_coyote_engine/coyote_oiling.html

It's also about time that the link between 90° V-engine oil drainback and 1g cornering got some real description.


Norm

 

[kevinatfms]

Uh, OK. You keep on thinking that. I'll stick with what Ford and Ford Racing told me after this exact discussion came up on Cornercarvers.com 2-3 years ago (and it was confirmed that the 3v does have an oil-to-coolant heat exchanger).

the 4v's had external cooling lines to the cooler is what you are thinking about, there is no internal oil cooler on any ford vehicle, due to the fact that internally regulated oil coolers have a large tendency to leak if not machined correctly and the margin factor of the machining process at the RAP is very shallow. on all the 4v's and the lightnings had lower rad hoses with the provisional tubes to go to the external oil coolers which were mounted to the side of the engine block which also acted as an oil filter mount. those were never offered on the 3v due to space restrictions from the power steering rack and pinion.