Will having PATS reprogrammed delete my custom tune?

[hammerdown]

Frequent lurker here, but I seldom post. Couldn't find an answer to this using the search function so here goes:

I've lost the only keys to my Mustang (well technically I didn't loose them but that's neither here nor there at this point) and am having new keys ordered from Ford. The dealership is going to have to re-program the PATS (Passive Anti Theft System) in the ECU in order for the car to accept new transponder keys.

I'm a little concerned because my car is supercharged and has a custom tune. Can anyone tell me if/when the dealership re-flashes the ECU to reset the PATS system is it a complete reprogramming that will overwrite the current tune with a new factory fresh one or will it simply address the PATS section and leave everything else alone?

I read up on the procedure in the shop manual and it seems as though the whole thing is done with the Ford/Rotunda VCM/IDS scan tool and only interacts with PATS during the reprogram but I don't know this for certain.
This is how the procedure goes as far as I can tell:
http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=413&viewfile=Key Programming Using Diagnostic Equipment.pdf


Suppose it's not too much just to ask the service writer but half the time I seem to know more about my car then they do so I'm a little skeptical taking anything they say at face value.

This place being hands down the best tech-oriented forum I've found around; I figured if anyone had the real answer, I'd find it here.

Thanks,
-HD

 

[lito]

It does not messes with that but will you have a warranty that they will not try to check for updated calibrations once there?

 

[hammerdown]

I will be sure to let them know the car is tuned and do not flash any strategy updates.
However, since I'm out of warranty hopefully they won't even bother. I just wasn't sure if it would require a complete reset from Ford in order to reset the PATS.

Thank you for answering my question on this.

 

[TexasBlownV8]

Please let us know how it goes.

 

[hammerdown]

Update..
I managed to score an AutoEngunity scan tool and laptop loaded up with the Ford suite and it appears I just might be able to do this PATS programming myself.

I found a tutorial that gives me hope (linked it here for my own reference later on):
http://www.newcougar.org/forums/archive/t-151594.html
Applies to a 2001 Mercury Cougar, but I'm hoping the process is basically the same still.

Still waiting 4-6 business days for 2 new OEM blanks from ebay to arrive; then I'm still going to have to pay a locksmith or somebody to cut the keys off of the VIN so I won't know my true fate for a few more days.

But... maybe with a little bit luck I can tell the stealership to go ! And save literally $2-300.00.
Crossing my fingers I can make it all work.

 

[Mustang30212]

Subscribing to this.

RH

 

[hammerdown]

More Updates:

So far Ford is winning the battle...

Round 1 - Key Cutting:
I got my keys in and called around to the local locksmiths and hardware stores to see who could cut keys based off my VIN.. Everyone said I had to go to the dealer so ultimately I paid my $27.60 to have the parts department look up my VIN in the Ford key cutting system and pull my codes.

I learned a few interesting facts. As of now they can only go back as far as 2003 to look up key codes based off VIN and every new model year, Ford purges an older model year out of their databases. I recommend getting your codes pulled just so you can have them to keep in a safe place "just incase" (esp if you own a 2003 - you're on the bubble of never being able to get your codes again).
Ford - 1
hammerdown - 0

Round 2 - Programming PATS:
So far it's been no joy getting AutoEnginuity to reprogram PATS. AE advertises they can do it and the company I work for paid over $2000.00 for this software w/ the Ford 'extras' to do work on our fleet trucks. (They should have just gotten the OEM Rotunda IDS tool instead.)

Granted all the menu items are present just like the link I posted above. Following that process every time I completed the 10 minute wait it would as me if I wanted to erase programmed keys. Selecting next it would then tell me "Programmed keys were not erased because of a system refusal."

The peculiar thing here is I was able to go back in and check the enhanced powertrain DTC's and there were two set. One being to the effect of PATS received invalid response from transponder key, and the other being Too Low/Improper number of PATS ignition keys programmed.

The second one interests me most because it suggests that the original PATS keys may have been erased after all except it conflicts with the error message I get saying keys were not erased due to a system refusal.

I'm going to call AE today for some further guidance and see where I may have gone wrong?... It seems like it should be something simple that I'm just not doing right. So basically it's down to whatever information I can get directly from AE. If I'm going to win this fight it's going to come by a submission late in the third round.

Ford - 2
hammerdown - 0

IDK, running out of options here...

 

[hammerdown]

Final Update:

Spoke with tech support form AutoEnginuity today. Turns out that AE can't access PATS so long as there is a DTC stored in the PATS system. The one's I've been having are:

B1213 Less than 2 (or 3 if equipped w/ Valet key) keys programmed to the system
and
B1601 Unprogrammed encoded ignition key detected (leave ignition on for 20 seconds before trying a programmed key,inAnti-ScanMode).

1213 requires 1601 be cleared before it can be cleared and they seem to be persistant. Both DTCs reference the procedure to program keys using a scan tool as the fix according to both the factory service manual and repair material from ALLDATA.

This presents a bit of a chicken/egg scenario that I can't get past. AE can't clear the codes, and the software won't access PATS so long as codes are present (according to AE tech support)

I tried many different ways to wait out the 20 second anti-scan bit thinking that might be the culprit, switched keys, unplugged the scan tool, cycled ignition... no dice. Every time I tried to clear codes after waiting the 20 seconds AE popped back with a message stating that the ECU basically refused the reset and the codes remained. A couple of times clearing DTCs seemed to work and I thought I was successful but doing a refresh instantly brought the same codes back up again.

Finally I tried just waiting 20 seconds after an ignition cycle and went straight for PATS access.. Seems I've actually gone a step backwards in all my mucking about whereas yesterday I got AE to at least START the 10 min security access countdown (even though it was still denied access after the obligatory 10 min wait). Now when I try to initiate PATS Key Programming it instantly pops back with "security access refused by vehicle" and won't even attempt the countdown. Not even a "Let me think about it" like yesterday, now it's just a straight up instant NO! &

Seems I've done nothing short of a stellar job of pissing my car off and now PATS access is locked out like Ft. Knox, so it's off to Ford - let the wrenches at the dealership sort it out from here...

Ford - 3
hammerdown - 0

On a side note: I told myself that if I was going to have to tow it into the dealership there was going to be a damn good reason for it better than some stupid keys and it was gonna be damn well good an broken when it got there!! Completely locking out PATS access? I'd say that qualifies!

-HD

 

[Speed+Clinic]

I am sorry that this didn't work but I am somewhat glad that it didn't. If that worked then stealing a mustang would be the same as stealing an old honda or something like that. Hope the dealer solves all your issues and I dont think they will flash or do anything. They dont like to work for free lol

 

[hammerdown]

I am sorry that this didn't work but I am somewhat glad that it didn't. If that worked then stealing a mustang would be the same as stealing an old honda or something like that. Hope the dealer solves all your issues and I dont think they will flash or do anything. They dont like to work for free lol

No, but they sure love to try and sneak extra BS in on you and then tell you "oh by the way, to make A&B work we had to do XY&Z too and we're real sorry but now it's gonna cost what we originally quoted you plus an Arm Leg & Testicle. Masters of the Bait & Switch they are I tell ya!

-HD

 

[Alfiedagr8]

Wait. How much are they charging you? And what's wrong with the car that they are charging more then 100 bucks? (if they are)

 

[SolarWar]

i wonder if this is a common issue with these cars, ive only been driving mine a little over a month, i only have one working key to start the car and just recently ive been getting the b1601 Code. i have 2 more keys cut by a friend, but i haven't had them programmed yet by a dealer i hope this key doesn't decide to just crap out on me and stop working....

 

[Alfiedagr8]

^^ have the keys programmer by a dealer and see what happens. Usually the tech should erase all keys stored and just program the keys you give him. So in this case you will have 3 out of a total
Of 8 possible keys. They shouldn't charge more than 1 hr to do so. That's what we charge here.

 

[SolarWar]

I'm going to a locksmith tomorrow to see what happens. the dealership is just way too far out of the way but if no luck tomorrow then I guess the dealership is the next choice

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[hammerdown]

Well I had a very pleasant surprise and a "Well how about that, I'm an asshole" moment..

I towed it in to a Ford store (Dealership "B") that's closer to where I than the one I usually use that is closest to where I work (Dealership "A") . So the story goes, Dealership A, (a fairly large Ford store) told me it would be $109.00 to program the keys.


Picked up the car today after towing it to Dealership B (MUCH smaller dealership nearby where I live). To my surprise the bill was $50.00 even. I said to the service writer there, "Man I feel like I got off easy!" His reply, "Yeah you did actually." Then I said, "I was expecting to pay at least double that." Then he says, "Yeah, that's about what most Ford stores want to charge, but I just think that's way out of line." Me, "Wow! Well just let me put my tongue in the roof of my mouth and say 'THANK YOU!'"..

Was not expecting that at all.. Nice when you run across honest folks like that, they seem fewer and farer between these days. I know where I'll go from now on when I run up against something I can't solve myself. Guess it's time for me to let go of a few past experiences and not judge every book by its cover.

Now...All said there were some 'hiccups' getting home with the car that weren't there before and may or may not be related - I believe it has more to do with my AeroForce scan gauge acting up more so than a real problem with the car.. Just very peculiar that it wasn't doing what it's doing before I took the car in, but I'm starting a separate thread about that rather than elaborate here.

Anyway, I now have a running car and just finished programming up two new fobs. Should have just saved myself the headaches and gone to Ford in the first place - but I learned a lot about PATS along the way so I'm good with it.

-HD

 

[SolarWar]

Great resolution to a crappy problem.

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