From Koni to bilstein. I've seen the light. Thanks vorshlag!

[white86hatch]

I really think the blown Koni thing is massively overstated. Have had them on numerous cars without issue. Shocks don't last forever on a race car.

I'm sure people who either don't race or rarely push their cars have had decent success with them. Between crap Texas roads and autocross I guess I just wore mine out quicker? Your statement about race cars is spot on.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Literally everyone I know personally who has run Konis has blown them. Doesn't seem overblown to me.

....puns....

Were any of those cars NOT lowered?


Norm

 

[jmauld]

Were any of those cars NOT lowered?


Norm

I know of two Mustangs that raced in Stock class (ie. NOT lowered) that blew KONIs. And that's just mustangs local to my area. They blow on other cars too.

They can't handle bottoming out, which is an unfortunate side effect of driving your car.

 

[Norm Peterson]

They can't handle bottoming out, which is an unfortunate side effect of driving your car.

Kind of what this little fishing expedition is about. I know that spacers to fit between the springs and their seats exist for the earlier Mustangs, which might be a solution for the Koni/S197 situation for those not particularly seeking to lower their cars (but who might want more spring rate than OE). Seems like something similar for these cars might have a small market, not that I'm planning on being that supplier or anything.

FWIW, my 2008 GT on its stock springs sits about 3/4" lower than the 2011 red Mustang in this Vorshlag picture (and about 1/2" higher than the same car on its Pro-kit springs), assuming that those dimensions are between the axle centers and the sheet metal. But I have no idea if I've been sacrificing any bump travel (or if so, how much).

FWIW #2, it's easier to measure from the lower-most point of the wheel to the sheet metal and subtract half a wheel outer diameter to get those dimensions . . . no getting down on your hands and knees and still only guessing about where the axle center is.


Norm

 

[Mark Aubele]

Literally everyone I know personally who has run Konis has blown them. Doesn't seem overblown to me.

....puns....

On Mustangs or in general? I mean in the "pittsburgh" autocross hillclimb road race community a ton of people run Konis on many different platforms and this site is literally the first place I have heard of it. Although to me (and most others who drive the car hard) they are wear items and get replaced fairly often. And our roads suck here.

I can see how if someone uses some junk 200 lb/in springs that lower the car 2" and cut/remove the bumpstops (see it all the time) blowing Konis, any strut would blow under those conditions.

It does bother me they don't shorten the strut. I can only lower the car 1" while feeling comfortable with how much bump travel I have with my yellows.

 

[white86hatch]

On Mustangs or in general? I mean in the "pittsburgh" autocross hillclimb road race community a ton of people run Konis on many different platforms and this site is literally the first place I have heard of it. Although to me (and most others who drive the car hard) they are wear items and get replaced fairly often. And our roads suck here.

I can see how if someone uses some junk 200 lb/in springs that lower the car 2" and cut/remove the bumpstops (see it all the time) blowing Konis, any strut would blow under those conditions.

It does bother me they don't shorten the strut. I can only lower the car 1" while feeling comfortable with how much bump travel I have with my yellows.

My steeda sport springs are 1" springs and are roughly 200lb rate. Had stock bump stops in the front and cut rear bump stops. Maybe my luck and the others who have had similar experience is just shitty.

 

[Mark Aubele]

My steeda sport springs are 1" springs and are roughly 200lb rate. Had stock bump stops in the front and cut rear bump stops. Maybe my luck and the others who have had similar experience is just shitty.

I am running the stock bumpstops too but a bit stiffer spring rate. Hope I have better luck!

 

[jmauld]

I would bet that there are a lot of people driving on blown KONIs and don't realize it. Every time that I have blown one (I've blown four) the shock lost its rebound but retained some of it's compression. That makes it a little more difficult to feel that it is blown.

 

[I am Legend]

I would bet that there are a lot of people driving on blown KONIs and don't realize it. Every time that I have blown one (I've blown four) the shock lost its rebound but retained some of it's compression. That makes it a little more difficult to feel that it is blown.

+1.

 

[Mineral_'01]

Just to add to ride height comparison pics in this thread, I was able to achieve a max ride height that is only 1" lower than stock with Ground Control coilovers.

The adjustment collar had to be adjusted all the way flush to the top of the strut body to achieve the height above, but I think it's a great compromise for folks looking for near near ride heights. (pic taken before final ride height adjustment made)

 

[jmauld]

That strut looks to be the same length as the factory strut? Did you request that from GC, or is that their default offering?

 

[Boaisy]

It looks a bit shorter to me.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Without any car weight on either of them, and with different rate springs on each, I don't think any useful conclusions can be made.


Norm

 

[jmauld]

Without any car weight on either of them, and with different rate springs on each, I don't think any useful conclusions can be made.


Norm

If the body of the strut is the same length as stock, then I immediately know that the suspension is still limited in compression. That's a bad thing. Granted it's hard to tell in that picture which is why I asked. I did ask the wrong question since it looks like I meant overall length. I'm really interested in the length of the body.

 

[Mineral_'01]

That strut looks to be the same length as the factory strut? Did you request that from GC, or is that their default offering?

Without any car weight on either of them, and with different rate springs on each, I don't think any useful conclusions can be made.


Norm

If the body of the strut is the same length as stock, then I immediately know that the suspension is still limited in compression. That's a bad thing. Granted it's hard to tell in that picture which is why I asked. I did ask the wrong question since it looks like I meant overall length. I'm really interested in the length of the body.

Sorry for the late reply, I work in a whole different time zone. (Afghanistan)

No, the Ground Control strut body is a shortened version to allow for additional compression stroke after lowering. I cannot get measurements of the strut body at the moment, but I can tell you the springs are 7" long 430lbs/inch rates. From memory I believe the body itself was 2" shorter than the OE Brembo package struts.

If you look at my previously posted picture of where the height adjustment collars were at from CG and installed it on the vehicle, it would look like the following picture. I had to bring the weight/height adjusters all the way flush to the top of the thread insert to achieve my desired ride height. (very first picture I posted above in other post or last picture in this post)

End result after raising collars to the top and evening out all sides of the car. I left a little rake in the ride height on purpose, but still need to corner balance it on the scales when I get home on leave next.

IMO, this is an excellent DD and occasional HPDE setup. It still retains tons of clearance for driving everyday on the street and enough spring rate and damping for track use with the help of a Strano front and rear bar.

 

[todcp]

I use Ground Control "conversion kit" with my Koni Yellow. I only wanted to lower a half inch in front and three quarters of an inch in the rear so did not use the GC shorter body Koni's. Works well for track and street.
My GC springs are set more toward track ability at 430 front and 225 rear. This is a bit stiff on poor roads but very nice on track with sticky tires.

 

[Mark Aubele]

I use Ground Control "conversion kit" with my Koni Yellow. I only wanted to lower a half inch in front and three quarters of an inch in the rear so did not use the GC shorter body Koni's. Works well for track and street.
My GC springs are set more toward track ability at 430 front and 225 rear. This is a bit stiff on poor roads but very nice on track with sticky tires.

Do the yellows handle the 425s up front well? Just wondering how stiff I can go with the yellows.

 

[2013DIBGT]

Do the yellows handle the 425s up front well? Just wondering how stiff I can go with the yellows.

The regular old Koni Yellow inserts found in most Ground Control kits should be good for up to near 600lb springs on the extreme end of the spectrum. 425 lb springs would be no issue at all.

 

[El_Tortuga]

Literally everyone I know personally who has run Konis has blown them. Doesn't seem overblown to me.

....puns....

Well then, allow me to reintroduce myself.

Hi,

I'm Joe. I was about about 2.8 seconds quicker the last time we were in the same event (Equipe Rapide in Feb). Good to meet you.

The Koni yellows that are on my car have been there for about 20 months and have been flawless. During that time I've autocrossed my car maybe a couple dozen times and 16 days on track for HPDE events. It's driven hard regularly.

My car was/is/will continue to be a TRUE dual purpose daily driver so I'm not willing to go radically stiffer nor accept excessively worse NVH. My little part of the DFW metroplex has ridiculously choppy streets and I cross railroad tracks 8 times per day on my normal commute. Between that and the ridiculously steep entrance to my work (and no off-property parking) means that I'm only mildly lowered.

Count me as a non-believer for the "team vorschlag" Koni hate. For a car that's only mildly lowered (about 1" in front and 1-3/8" out back) I rarely find the bump stops, and then only when I hit a radical train track way to fast. I've done so a handful of times. The normal daily crossings are no issue, nor do I feel anything when driving competitively. I did follow the instructions and reuse the stock strut bump stops, and use the shorter Eibach stops in the rear. If I remember correctly, Adam's car (white86) was lowered much more radically when he had his issue.

I'm staying on 200TW tires and sub 300 size for the foreseeable future. Kids in college means I have to keep my spend reasonable. If you want to go fast, tires are the single biggest equipment change you can make. If you go to the purple crack and/or massive sizes, you're likely headed down the slippery slope to big springs, which need more dampening, and higher stresses on EVERYTHING so plan on increased parts breakage, and cage/safety gear, etc. Cha-Ching, Cha-Ching, Cha-ching!!!

Maybe someday, but some of the best track folks drive low dollar and well prepped cars. E.g. the serious Miata crowd, or the Whiteners in their ridiculously quick Hondas. Makes too much sense, but I dearly love the V-8, oops cost multiplier.

While I'd love to have the luxury of high dollar shocks, struts, and coilovers, I firmly believe that my Koni experience is NOT unique. In this part of the world, Paul F is quicker than me and on them too, Mike C is solid, etc. Bottom line for me is that the Koni yellows are good fit with mild springs and lowering. Doesn't make sense to spend big coin to drop tenths of a second when multiple seconds are available in driver mods. As always, a work in progress.

 

[csamsh]

Well then, allow me to reintroduce myself.

Hi,

I'm Joe. I was about about 2.8 seconds quicker the last time we were in the same event (Equipe Rapide in Feb). Good to meet you.

You mean the one in a gravel pit in 20 degree freezing rain when you were on all seasons and I was on Rivals? Yeah I thought that was the one. C'mon, man.....get out of here with that shit unless you're telling the whole story.

Ok, there is one person I know who runs konis and hasn't blown them. Had them dyno'ed or off the car lately by any chance?