Scca CAM class on s197 + more power

[Sartol]

Moving to CAM class from ESP autocoss in a 07 GT. Trying to finish suspenion this year and think about adding power. Drove a c5 z06 and the power was fun to play with on course. Power wise i'm looking at putting a cam and pulles. I already have a JLT intake and bama tune 93. Don't want to create a un smooth power curve, and ok with 50% -75% throtle controlable then 100% to become a little wicked. thoughts?

 

[stepqhen]

My thoughts are if you have enough power to break the back end loose at will then you should probably have "enough" power. Gobs of power are really not going to help that much since you have to run 200+ treadware tires.

Unless you are going to be doing massive suspension changes to help put that power down it isn't going to help.

 

[NDSP]

I'm with stepqhen, power isn't the issue. Though it can be fun to play with. Which is why I sold my 2006 and went with the 2012, that extra 120hp is fun stuff. If you where so inclined to want more power, I wouldn't go the cams route. Way to little return for the investment, and it would come with peaky results. If you don't have longtubes and full exhaust, CIA and a tune. I'd complete that out with a tune and you should be able to get near the mid 300's rwhp. If you want more, than I'd go with a centrifugal blower, vortech or procharger. I say that over a roots type, because the centrifugal won't have the over powering low end torque but will still give you good power up top. Keep it at 450rwhp or less, so your bottom end won't abandon the ship.

 

[Mike Rousch]

Power wise you can do a lot with the 3V na, I would do the Detroit Rocker cams, Charge motion delete plates and a set of long tubes/off road. Add that with what you already have you should be right at 340/325. Your going to want to find a different tuner though, get someone local to you that can work with you on getting the throttle sensitivity to your liking. Hope that helps.

 

[csamsh]

I'm going to add to the "headers" choir here.

What does your wheel/tire/suspension package look like?

Adding power should probably be the last thing you do, unless everything else is completely squared away already

 

[Sartol]

@ Mike Detroit Rocker cams was where I was leaning , forgot about the charge motion delete, and long tube headers are on my mind. Right now in a turn I would have to almost kick the clutch to get tail happy. Under steers more than anythings. I have hit my brake spots wrong went into bad under steer and had to clutch kick to get it under control to prevent not hitting a cone or DNF. Over driving the car

@csamsh yea Power will be the last thing still working on my suspension. Currently Koni strt front and back, h&r ss springs, BMR strut tower brace, Steeda end links, Steeda hd strut mounts, Hawk hp + front pads , Stock sway bars and pan hard bar. 245/40/18 front rivals ( 275/35 for 2015 ) back 275/35/18 rivals , SVE drift wheels 21lb and stock 3.31 gears with stock LSD

Brakes, Hawk hp+ front bakes are nose driving the front end a little now and throwing alot of my weight up front and adding power is going to do it more or bring my braking spots back a little. Going to up the rear pads to help with this first as well.

First goal with the car is to get the under steer a little more under control. Built the front of the suspension and now its the rears turn. The 245/35 rivals did ok for 2014 but under steer. The price was right at the time. Car is payed off now and its time to turn her into my dream weekend autocross warrior still on a budget though lol.

@ndsp Getting to the mind 300 range is what I'm looking for. Just a little play power. With the new 5.0 extra power and brembo brakes I have thinking i have to up my game. Then 2015 they get IRS gotta up my seat time and personal game lol.

Suspension for 2015 - fay 2 watt link, UCA , LCA, strano Sway bars ( Rear first, don't know or think I need the front ) then looking into power or thinking about it.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Wheels, and implicitly tires. Mark and I both have 18x11's all around, and to be fully competitive in CAM I don't think you want to go much narrower than that, as it will limit what you can effectively run for tire size. I understand not wanting to get involved with body mods in order to run 18x12's and well over 300-wide tires as I think Terry was last using on the red car.

Some of the cars that CAM is hoping to attract are the fairly serious "Pro-Touring" cars, and some of these cars are running 335-wide tires (one that's been under construction for a year or so that I am assuming will meet the few CAM requirements is being built around having 335's up front).


Norm

 

[sheizasosay]

I think you should consider replacing the front control arm bushings. They will cause toe changes that will result in understeer.


EDIT- Should have quoted, but my post is in response to: "First goal with the car is to get the under steer a little more under control. Built the front of the suspension and now its the rears turn. The 245/35 rivals did ok for 2014 but under steer. The price was right at the time. Car is payed off now and its time to turn her into my dream weekend autocross warrior still on a budget though lol."

 

[dontlifttoshift]

sheiza is on the right track, fix the understeer problem.

I don't feel that throttle induced oversteer is the proper fix. Camber plates, larger wheels than what your planning and more tire. Yes, get the front bar. For autox shocks>headers.

 

[Conekiller]

There will probably be lots of good autox parts for sale locally around Jan/Feb that fit your mustang. Like a fays2 watts, some AST4150s and possibly a set of 18x11s with still good 295 rivals mounted on them.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I don't feel that throttle induced oversteer is the proper fix.

Agreed. Don't try to achieve a less understeerish handling balance indirectly (by dragging the good end down to the level of the weak end) until you've at least tried to directly improve the weak end.


Norm

 

[csamsh]

There will probably be lots of good autox parts for sale locally around Jan/Feb that fit your mustang. Like a fays2 watts, some AST4150s and possibly a set of 18x11s with still good 295 rivals mounted on them.

Dang Shane....you moving on to bigger and better things???

OP- BUY THIS SETUP, AND YOU'RE SET

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Understeering? Get rid of those itty bitty 245mm fronts!

hehe.... we have sold a LOT of S197 guys a LOT of sets of 18x11" wheels. And lately a lot of 19x11" wheels for people that cannot understand that 18" has better tire choices, or they don't like the look of 18s. But for CAM class, with as unlimited as it is? I'd shy away from anything smaller.

Going with an 11" wheel and a 295-315 front tire will add MONSTER cornering grip up front and likely kill a lot of that understeer. The other keys to reducing understeer include:

• Real spring rates up front, starting at 450 #/in and up to 550-600#/in on wider street compound tires for CAM. We tend to AT LEAST triple the stock front rates, for openers. This reduces brake dive and front roll GREATLY. Nothing else can make up for the lack of front spring rate... not a bar stiff enough to add 300 #/in in rate!
• Run REAL dampers to work with REAL spring rates
• Run more negative camber if tire wear or measured pyro temps look bad on the front tire shoulders

Just wanted to note: The 2015 CAM aero rules have changed radically. Page 230 of the 2015 rules. Rear spoiler may be added, but may extend no more than 8” from the original body nor past the perimeter of the body. No rear wings may be added except OE or equivalent. There are also some MAJOR changes elsewhere... so check the rules.

Previously allowed CAM mods no longer listed in the rules, and hence assumed now illegal:

• Rear wings?
• Steering columns?
• Changes to exterior mirrors, lights and trim?

I used to run CAM in this Mustang with a stock engine... no longer legal on many counts. But I could add a twin turbo monster motor, custom Corvette suspension, and carbon brakes - and all that's fine!

edit: Like have been saying lately: don't build around SCCA class rules, especially for a brand new category like CAM. Of course you should run their events where your car fits - they have the most competitive autocrossers in the country there - but the rules for many classes are a quickly moving target, and sometimes that target does not include logic or market considerations. This has been getting better lately (with some long overdue updates to rules affecting Mustangs in ST, SP, and Street) but they have a long way to go and a lot of years to make up for...

Cheers,

 

[csamsh]

Wow....so...somebody thought it was a good idea to have MORE restrictive aero rules in CAM than in ESP? Jesus Christ.

 

[csamsh]

I'm no longer CAM legal, even if I were on street tires.

El oh fucking el.

 

[Conekiller]

Dang Shane....you moving on to bigger and better things???

OP- BUY THIS SETUP, AND YOU'RE SET

No interest in esp nationally and no need for these nice parts for just a street cruiser that might or might not see anymore autocross. I don't want to give up autocross though, going to figure out something for the future just not sure what yet.

Derek, I should be at the January autocross, even if I don't run the car, so if you're interested in any of the parts let me know.

 

[I am Legend]

I'm no longer CAM legal, even if I were on street tires.

El oh fucking el.

In what way is your car not CAM legal?

 

[csamsh]

In what way is your car not CAM legal?

Spoiler is too big. ESP is 10", CAM is 8"

 

[I am Legend]

Gotcha. I just went through the CAM rules today. Definitely changing my game plan but still going to go give it a go. Same as your sig, "shooting for 2015 Solo nats"

 

[white86hatch]

Gotcha. I just went through the CAM rules today. Definitely changing my game plan but still going to go give it a go. Same as your sig, "shooting for 2015 Solo nats"

Which class are you running Yankee?