Huge low end loss with H pipe

[BAKnBLK2010]

because the rear o2s are technically never turned off per se. Or else you would fail catalyst readiness testing for emissions. most.good calibrators just set the parameters for the cel to go off to insane parameters.

And before you ask the next question, how do you pass an OBDII emissions test without cats... well I just told you above

Really? You and I both know that most "good" calibrators simply turn off the rear 02's when writing a tune and don't adjust the rear 02 parameters to go off to insane parameters. Most folks running an aftermarket tune and off road X don't have to worry about emissions. When someone request a tune that is worried about passing an emissions test I'm sure they relay that info to the calibrator and then the calibrator would go the extra step in actually adjusting those parameters. And this wouldn't be the most performance oriented tune because of the extra fuel being dumped to cool the non existing cats thus making the tune A/F ratios lower at times. In cases like this most people actually have two tunes, one for emissions and one for everyday use.

 

[Bmr4life]

because the rear o2s are technically never turned off per se. Or else you would fail catalyst readiness testing for emissions. most.good calibrators just set the parameters for the cel to go off to insane parameters.

And before you ask the next question, how do you pass an OBDII emissions test without cats... well I just told you above

That doesn't make sense. They ARE turned off, completely. I know because I had to have brenspeed write me a new tune with them turned on in order to pass emissions with my 05.

Also, I'm posting in this thread because I want a tune and O/R H. I am a little concerned about HOW MUCH the low end torque drop is. Also, I want to know if this drop is there versus STOCK or a PREVIOUSLY TUNED car. I'm hoping the drop only takes you back down to stock levels, not down past them. I'd be keeping the rest of the exhaust stock.

 

[Swarzkopf]

I honestly don't know the first thing about tuning the new 5.0- but with my other stuff I've tuned, adding exhaust flow usually means you can add a few degrees of timing, especially down low. This usually compensates for the felt loss of low end "grunt".

 

[Bodam]

That doesn't make sense. They ARE turned off, completely. I know because I had to have brenspeed write me a new tune with them turned on in order to pass emissions with my 05.

Also, I'm posting in this thread because I want a tune and O/R H. I am a little concerned about HOW MUCH the low end torque drop is. Also, I want to know if this drop is there versus STOCK or a PREVIOUSLY TUNED car. I'm hoping the drop only takes you back down to stock levels, not down past them. I'd be keeping the rest of the exhaust stock.

I don't think it took me below stock levels of low end tq, but it definitely lost a lot, as compared to before and after.

Maybe it can be tuned, we will see. If it can't be tuned and fixed, there will be a new Lethal H pipe for sale very soon.

 

[BAKnBLK2010]

You guys should get the off road X pipe instead of the H. X pipes really shine on the new 5.0.

 

[Bmr4life]

You guys should get the off road X pipe instead of the H. X pipes really shine on the new 5.0.

X and H aren't much different performance wise. That's more so a sound preference.

 

[Mach2burnout]

That doesn't make sense. They ARE turned off, completely. I know because I had to have brenspeed write me a new tune with them turned on in order to pass emissions with my 05.

Also, I'm posting in this thread because I want a tune and O/R H. I am a little concerned about HOW MUCH the low end torque drop is. Also, I want to know if this drop is there versus STOCK or a PREVIOUSLY TUNED car. I'm hoping the drop only takes you back down to stock levels, not down past them. I'd be keeping the rest of the exhaust stock.

When I put my O/R x and h (tried both - settled on h for sound reasons) I felt some low end torque loss. Once I got the BAMA tune alls good.

^^^When you install that O/R x or H, you won't be leaving the rest of your exhaust stock. When you hear that raspy sound you'll be hunting something up to and including reinstalling your cats. The stock mufflers sound like hell with the O/R. Unless Ford made a big improvement on the 5.0 mufflers.

 

[Bmr4life]

When I put my O/R x and h (tried both - settled on h for sound reasons) I felt some low end torque loss. Once I got the BAMA tune alls good.

^^^When you install that O/R x or H, you won't be leaving the rest of your exhaust stock. When you hear that raspy sound you'll be hunting something up to and including reinstalling your cats. The stock mufflers sound like hell with the O/R. Unless Ford made a big improvement on the 5.0 mufflers.

We'll see. I had a loud ass 05 that didn't bother me to much. Hopefully the worst thing I'll have to do is get some gt500 takeoffs. I don't want this car to be loud.

 

[Bodam]

The car is LOUD with the offroad pipe and Bassani. And I mean freaking loud under load. The bad thing is, it drones at 2k really badly too.

He is right though, the stock muffs sound like shit with the o/r pipe. Sounds like it's too muffled, almost like a struggled puffing.

It sucks, cuz I was super excited about getting the offroad pipe, but I am pretty unhappy with it so far.

 

[Bmr4life]

The car is LOUD with the offroad pipe and Bassani. And I mean freaking loud under load. The bad thing is, it drones at 2k really badly too.

He is right though, the stock muffs sound like shit with the o/r pipe. Sounds like it's too muffled, almost like a struggled puffing.

It sucks, cuz I was super excited about getting the offroad pipe, but I am pretty unhappy with it so far.

Well we'll see. I was hoping I could add some performance and sound at the same time without spending a lot. I don't want to spend a few hundred on axle backs when they do nothing for performance. Trying to spend my money a lot smarter on the 11 versus what I did on the 05. (Cams and gears, never again).

 

[BAKnBLK2010]

X and H aren't much different performance wise. That's more so a sound preference.

I'm pretty sure BBR tested both and found little to no gain with the H pipe however the X will get you around 15 rwhp. The X pipe just sounds so much better on these cars too. I have the off road X with the GT 500 mufflers and I think it's the best sounding combo for these cars. JMHO take it for what it's worth.


Edit: Before I bought the GT 500 mufflers I ran the stockers with the ORX and it sounded really good. I just wanted something a little louder and deeper and that is how I settled on the GT 500's.

 

[Bmr4life]

I'm pretty sure BBR tested both and found little to no gain with the H pipe however the X will get you around 15 rwhp. The X pipe just sounds so much better on these cars too. I have the off road X with the GT 500 mufflers and I think it's the best sounding combo for these cars. JMHO take it for what it's worth.


Edit: Before I bought the GT 500 mufflers I ran the stockers with the ORX and it sounded really good. I just wanted something a little louder and deeper and that is how I settled on the GT 500's.

I've yet to find a comparison for our exact cars, but I have seen several for other mustang years. All have shown very similar performance. One study showed the H making more power the whole way. Another showed the H making more down low and the X making more up high. Either way, none of the differences have been more than just a couple hp or tq. Nothing to draw any real conclusions about.

 

[BAKnBLK2010]

I've yet to find a comparison for our exact cars, but I have seen several for other mustang years. All have shown very similar performance. One study showed the H making more power the whole way. Another showed the H making more down low and the X making more up high. Either way, none of the differences have been more than just a couple hp or tq. Nothing to draw any real conclusions about.

The 5.0 is a different animal all together. You can't compare it to the 3 valve cars. Just PM VTX Frank or GT S197 and ask them they will tell you the same thing I'm trying to tell ya. Good luck either way.

 

[Mach2burnout]

I'm pretty sure BBR tested both and found little to no gain with the H pipe however the X will get you around 15 rwhp. The X pipe just sounds so much better on these cars too. I have the off road X with the GT 500 mufflers and I think it's the best sounding combo for these cars. JMHO take it for what it's worth.

Well I don't have any dyno nos. but 15 rwhp difference between the o/r x and o/r h, I really can't see that. I mean that is a noticable difference. I've tried both and I see little difference. The h is a little less raspy. Now 15 rwhp difference between the stock h and the o/r x, now I can see that.


Edit: Before I bought the GT 500 mufflers I ran the stockers with the ORX and it sounded really good. I just wanted something a little louder and deeper and that is how I settled on the GT 500's.

The stock mufflers really sound pretty good except for that raspy rediculous sound at approx. 22-2500 rpm. The flowmasters I'm running are way louder but not as much of the raspy sound. Of course maybe some of it is my driving style. I tend to rev a little longer, I think than other people. Some people shift at 1800 - 2000 rpm every time during normal driving. I don't. As far as drone goes, let it prrrr man, if you can't handle a little drone leave it stock. Mine is the worst right at 70 mph. Hell in LA. I never drive 70 either more or less. lol

 

[Mach2burnout]

The 5.0 is a different animal all together. You can't compare it to the 3 valve cars. Just PM VTX Frank or GT S197 and ask them they will tell you the same thing I'm trying to tell ya. Good luck either way.

Probably a lot of truth to that!!!

 

[Seer]

That doesn't make sense. They ARE turned off, completely. I know because I had to have brenspeed write me a new tune with them turned on in order to pass emissions with my 05.

Also, I'm posting in this thread because I want a tune and O/R H. I am a little concerned about HOW MUCH the low end torque drop is. Also, I want to know if this drop is there versus STOCK or a PREVIOUSLY TUNED car. I'm hoping the drop only takes you back down to stock levels, not down past them. I'd be keeping the rest of the exhaust stock.

Don't know why Brenspeed would do this, when all you need to do is set the parameters to the readiness test to an astronomical value so you can leave them on and pass emissions. Unless SCT is limited in this fashion, but you can turn off COT and leave the rears on with the readiness test set high through other means.

 

[Seer]

Really? You and I both know that most "good" calibrators simply turn off the rear 02's when writing a tune and don't adjust the rear 02 parameters to go off to insane parameters. Most folks running an aftermarket tune and off road X don't have to worry about emissions. When someone request a tune that is worried about passing an emissions test I'm sure they relay that info to the calibrator and then the calibrator would go the extra step in actually adjusting those parameters. And this wouldn't be the most performance oriented tune because of the extra fuel being dumped to cool the non existing cats thus making the tune A/F ratios lower at times. In cases like this most people actually have two tunes, one for emissions and one for everyday use.

Then those people should find a new tuner, because those functions are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Bmr4life]

Don't know why Brenspeed would do this, when all you need to do is set the parameters to the readiness test to an astronomical value so you can leave them on and pass emissions. Unless SCT is limited in this fashion, but you can turn off COT and leave the rears on with the readiness test set high through other means.

From what I read with my 4.6L, all the tuners did this. You HAD to request they left the O2 sensors on if you needed to pass emissions. Just do a search for "emissions" and you'll see tons of people talking about it.

My car wouldn't past the Ready state with my OBDII scanner until I got the emissions tune. Also, one of my rear O2's was dead, but I never knew it because my tune had them turned off. I never had a code for it (neither MIL nor code) until I loaded my emissions tune.

 

[Seer]

From what I read with my 4.6L, all the tuners did this. You HAD to request they left the O2 sensors on if you needed to pass emissions. Just do a search for "emissions" and you'll see tons of people talking about it.

My car wouldn't past the Ready state with my OBDII scanner until I got the emissions tune. Also, one of my rear O2's was dead, but I never knew it because my tune had them turned off. I never had a code for it (neither MIL nor code) until I loaded my emissions tune.

eh, interesting. I can just go in with a SAE J2534 device, pull the raw tables and go from there.

Must be a limitation with SCT.

 

[Bmr4life]

eh, interesting. I can just go in with a SAE J2534 device, pull the raw tables and go from there.

Must be a limitation with SCT.

I wouldn't doubt that.