Supercharger #3. Procharger D1SC

[Marc s]

He did. But I wasn't there to see the results.

 

[BruceH]

Did ya get it on the dyno today Bruce?

It's to be continued. It started going lean right around 4k or so and was dangerously so by 4.8k. Datalogs showed everything was working as it should.

I think the hpx maf and procharger location for the maf is what caused the issues. The theory is that there is too much resolution in the hpx for the large volume of the quasi maf housing. The solution seems to be scaling the maf, displacement, etc. down so that the maf will be more sensitive to airflow changes in the upper end of the xfer table. I tried a test of scaling by 80% and was able to keep a stable a/f to about 6k so I think the solution will work. It's too bad that Matt and myself didn't think of doing this while the car was on the dyno.

 

[Marc s]

I will be at the shop next Saturday if you want to come back down.

 

[Bullitt3478]

You r right about the straight gears. They sound like rocks crunching around in the head unit.lol. But that black valve is quiet,get ya a red race open valve....that's what I had and it was really loud.

 

[BruceH]

It works now. I can make a full pull without going lean. Rescaled by .73. I never would of thought of that on my own. I was messing around with different value file maf xfers for comparison purposes and when I chose ba5000 and 4" blow through Advantage auto scaled by .69. A message came up that notified me of it and listed the parameters that were scaled.

Basically I'm telling the ecu a lie about motor displacement and backing it up by changing some of the injector parameters, the maf xfer, and manifold by the same factor.

It pulls hard. Going back on the dyno Saturday.

 

[danbogart]

Nice Bruce! You'll have to bring it by the house sometime this week so i can see the install!

Misspelling brought to you by tapatalk.

 

[Doug M]

Cool!!

 

[Dillon Dollar]

Sub for numbers

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

[recordbreaker5]

It's to be continued. It started going lean right around 4k or so and was dangerously so by 4.8k. Datalogs showed everything was working as it should.

I think the hpx maf and procharger location for the maf is what caused the issues. The theory is that there is too much resolution in the hpx for the large volume of the quasi maf housing. The solution seems to be scaling the maf, displacement, etc. down so that the maf will be more sensitive to airflow changes in the upper end of the xfer table. I tried a test of scaling by 80% and was able to keep a stable a/f to about 6k so I think the solution will work. It's too bad that Matt and myself didn't think of doing this while the car was on the dyno.

I currently have the maf in the intercooler at the moment. A prior tuner said he didn't mind the maf in the IC but a tuner I'm working with now said her would prefer it closer to the TB. Is there significant benefit to location or is it more preference per the tuner for better signals, etc.

 

[BruceH]

I currently have the maf in the intercooler at the moment. A prior tuner said he didn't mind the maf in the IC but a tuner I'm working with now said her would prefer it closer to the TB. Is there significant benefit to location or is it more preference per the tuner for better signals, etc.

I'd rather have a nice straight section of 3" tube to put the hpx meter in. It makes tuning fairly simple. There isn't a way to calculate the area with the maf housing in the procharger intercooler. Based on what I'm seeing it's probably close to the area of a 3.8" tube. That large of an area combined with a hpx will measure about 1000rwhp in a blow through configuration. It's alot more range than I need and takes up some of the resolution I'd like to have.

I don't think there is a problem with getting a clean signal, driveability isn't a problem at all. The motor is only using about 82% of the maf range and it gets pretty touchy towards the top. The top in this case is only about 840 counts out of 1023 on a non linear curve (a little over 4 volts out 5 are being used). I was having one hell of a time getting the fueling to do what was commanded in the tune without scaling and even then it was a little off. Someone smarter than me pointed out something I wasn't doing correctly so there is still hope for the hpx in the intercooler location.

This seems to be how self tuning has gone so far. Just when I think I have a pretty good handle on it something else comes up that baffles me.

 

[BruceH]

The sd80 injectors have been replaced with a set of 39lb cobra injectors left over from the na configuration. No more funky maf or whacky, unstable fuel trims. I'm seriously considering keeping these injectors for awhile and just running gasoline. There is enough fuel pump to bump the delta pressure up at higher loads if needed. A smaller pulley will go on to enhance lower rpm power but that will probably be it.

The car is fun to drive right now, even in the rain. It's still stupid fast for a street car. I'd guess it's right around 500rwhp right now. We never did get a good dyno pull when working with the 80s. Best then was 488/403 weather corrected on an aborted pull with 15 degrees of spark. A/F was close to 13 when the pull was stopped. Uncorrected hp was over 500.

I've never ran into this much difficulty with any of my projects. I realize this is just a bump in the road compared to what some on this board have experienced. I've lost my drive to work on the car, I just want to enjoy it. I'll update this thread with final numbers after the next dyno day.

 

[Doug M]

Congrats man!! Good luck.

 

[one eyed willy]

Surprised I didn't see this till now!

 

[TheKurgan]

Time to throw a little nitrous at it. That's the only thing left for you to try lol.

 

[BruceH]

An update to this oddysey.

A set of LU-47 injectors modified to flow 80 lbs have been installed. The suggested tune data for them didn't work. That was an opportunity to learn how to dial in injectors with unknown data.

The pulley was changed from 4.13 to 3.7 and fuel has been changed to e85. The weather cooperated enough yesteday to get some wot pulls in. It's all dialed in, driveability is great. The next dyno session should be the last. Four months till the tracks open.

 

[stkjock]

so you had to build the injector slops yourself?

 

[BruceH]

so you had to build the injector slops yourself?

Yes. I had been told that ID850 data would work perfectly for these (they aren't ID injectors) but it didn't, the ecu was adding over 20% and a bank to bank difference of 10% existed at low throttle. Tried SD80 data and it didn't work, tried lu47 data scaled for 80lbs and it didn't work either.

At that point I had to research what to do. Increasing the minimum pulsewidth helped with low level linearity. Played with the slopes and breakpoint until less than 5% was being added or subtracted in closed loop. Lowered offset until the a/f was changing at a reasonable rate and not hanging rich. The ending slopes indicate a flow of 76lbs at 39.15psi. The injectors were supplied with a flow report showing 80lbs at 43.5psi. They were advertised as dynamically flow matched but data was only provided for max flow.


Edit. The advertised and tested flow rate of 80lbs was obtained with n-heptane which flows about 5% more than gasoline. Multiply the slopes I came up with by 105% and they are as advertised. This also means that the slopes are correct which means the rest of the injector data is probably good.
It's quite possible that I've done something wrong in obtaining the values but what I've come up with works all the way to 7k.

 

[stkjock]

cool deal Bruce.

Maybe this set up will stay for a while!

 

[one eyed willy]

Yes. I had been told that ID850 data would work perfectly for these (they aren't ID injectors) but it didn't, the ecu was adding over 20% and a bank to bank difference of 10% existed at low throttle. Tried SD80 data and it didn't work, tried lu47 data scaled for 80lbs and it didn't work either.

At that point I had to research what to do. Increasing the minimum pulsewidth helped with low level linearity. Played with the slopes and breakpoint until less than 5% was being added or subtracted in closed loop. Lowered offset until the a/f was changing at a reasonable rate and not hanging rich. The ending slopes indicate a flow of 76lbs at 39.15psi. The injectors were supplied with a flow report showing 80lbs at 43.5psi. They were advertised as dynamically flow matched but data was only provided for max flow.

It's quite possible that I've done something wrong in obtaining the values but what I've come up with works all the way to 7k.

Good, now send me the file, lol!

Glad you got them figured out, not sure what I'm doing with my SD80's yet....

 

[BruceH]

Another update. It's making great power until it runs out of fuel. Pump duty cycle is around .8, there is a classic 100% fuel hook that starts around 5200rpm. I've had a few issues with these injectors and they are being swapped out for larger Bosch racing 970cc. The shop that modded my current injectors is giving me full credit for the swap.

It's a mean car up to 5500 or so. Boost wasn't datalogged and I only got a glance at my mechanical gauge during the pull. It hit maybe 14psi.

Edit: For anyone wondering what the difference is in corrections here are STD and Uncorrected. The winpep software is pretty cool letting me change the correction factor and other parameters from the same dyno runs.