4R70W install-S197...Here is a Write Up for you!

[CandyRedGT]

Excellent info here!!! Thanks alot for posting it! Since TCI DID finally send a new tranny/convertor..i'm trying my 5R55S again....if/when it fails again...i'll do this swap. Thankyou, Joe

 

[09bbbkgt]

I myself went with a Lentech 4R70w trans. I absolutly love it. I also went with the 2005+ TCI Ratchet shifter in mine just to make it appear stock. I have a PTC converter in mine. Great info man. Im sure you will have just has much fun with yours as i do with mine.

 

[dysan]

Bringing this back from the dead....For the reverse lights...nothing special other than cutting the two wires that run back to the reverse lights down by the S.J.B. and sending 12V to them? I'm going to be running in the street points class this season and I can't have the trans brake button so I need to wire the trans brake to operate so the car will go in reverse when I put the shifter in reverse.

I got all my wiring done and hoped that the 12V power on the one side of the reverse light wires would activate a relay I installed but it was a no-go. Apparently the computer drops the voltage so damn low when the reverse lights go on that it won't even activate the relay.

Thanks for the great write-up!

 

[Turbostangs90]

When converting from a 5 speed to the AODE, I will need to purchase the trans control module and wiring correct?
OP, you mentioned that on your THP you had to have some pipes modified by Jim. Which pipes were modified for the install?
And how do I get in touch with Darrin? The website link you posted for BC automotive doesnt work. Thanks.

 

[GI Joe]

When converting from a 5 speed to the AODE, I will need to purchase the trans control module and wiring correct?
OP, you mentioned that on your THP you had to have some pipes modified by Jim. Which pipes were modified for the install?
And how do I get in touch with Darrin? The website link you posted for BC automotive doesnt work. Thanks.

call him at 317 514 0816
Tell him you talked with me ( Dave Lewis)
You either need to get a device to shift for yu or you can buy a manual valve body and do all the shifting yourself.
Can tremeber on the pipes...its been years

 

[TexasBlownV8]

If you need help on the full-automatic setup (automatic valve body), which you need a separate controller for, I can help, as I just did it.

 

[Turbostangs90]

Now that I know I can run it as a full manual VB, thats the way Id prefer to do it. Thanks.

 

[GI Joe]

call him at 317 514 0816
Tell him you talked with me ( Dave Lewis)
You either need to get a device to shift for yu or you can buy a manual valve body and do all the shifting yourself.
Can tremeber on the pipes...its been years

cant spell either it would seem..lol

 

[crownaviation]

About to do the install.

I have a 4r70W with PA MVB and transbrake. I am going to use a locking converter from circle D (hopefully here next week).


Plans: Will be full manual shift for now. Car was previously 5r55s. Will run 850+rwhp with TVS and nitrous and eventually a big Whipple so torque down low is pretty nuts. Going to a Hurst quarter stick shifter (pistol grip with reverse lockout).

I am thinking wiring will be simple, just have not figured it all out with my combo.

Couple questions:

1.) My tuner will be correcting the speedo. I assume I will just tap into the VSS on the tail shaft? The trans has a OSS but not going to use it.

2.) How the heck do you wire the transbrake? Shifter has a button on the stick but not sure if I really like that much. I would really hate to accidentally bump it on the highway or something stupid like that

I understand how one works, just not sure how this is setup/operates on the 4r. Holds reverse while in drive (1st I assume) then you release the reverse solenoid and let her rip. Any particular rpm or just under stall speed of the converter?

3.) So with my full manual setup will I need any signals to/from the EPC (Electronic Pressure Control)?

If I understand it right, I won't need/use the OSS (Output shaft speed sensor), or any of the inputs/outputs from the original EEC (Electronic Engine Control)? I know the EEC has IAT, CHT, MAF, TOT, AC, Brake switch and TPS signals but how does that apply to this setup? Would be kinda like going to a stick car yes?

4.) Anyone use the brake switch to disengage the torque converter lockup? Or will I just have to turn the damn thing off when coming to stop when cruising?

5.) Will my dust cover and shields work from my 5r55s? I noticed this statement..

"In either case you’ll need the blocking plate/separator plate and dust cover, separator plate XL3Z7007AA, F1VY7986A"

6.) Do you just plug 5r55s oem plug into the MLPS (manual lever position sensor)? Does the pcm need that input or can I leave the whole thing off. The wiring instructions are pretty weak from what I can see. The FB site used to have some info but the link is down.

7.) Just wire a 12v source to the MCCC (modulated converter clutch control). This should lock the converter when activated yes? Just doing this will take out any perks like engine/vehicle functions that normally kick it out?

 

[dysan]

Well...you've got a lot of questions there...To the best of my knowledge I thought you need to have a manual/stick pcm for it to work properly with the 4R70W. What did Lito say about it since he did the tuning on my car as well as Paul(againstallodds1) which we both have manual PCM's.

Paul and I used the OSS output from the trans right to the same wires that were used in our 3650 transmissions so I can't really help you there.

As for the trans brake it will only engage when the trans is in first gear. There are a lot of people who use the button on the shifter for their trans brake but I initially used a button and screwed it into a piece of pvc and the button had the coiled wire so I would let go of the button and basically throw it down when racing. I have since made a custom metal plate that goes around my B&M ratchet shifter that has the button in it. As for wiring the trans brake you want to have a good sized wire to feed the power to it fused at 15-20 amps and make sure the button is rated for at least 10 amps but preferably 20 amps.

Here is the trans brake button I am currently using...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/huu-2483880

You will also need to make sure there is a micro switch built into the shifter for when you put it in reverse since you have to actually engage the trans brake for reverse to work.

As for the converter lockup you only want to lock it up in 3rd gear and overdrive and you have to manually do it. You will need to wire up a switch somewhere to do that as well as for the overdrive since they are both electronic.

I don't know what dust cover you are talking about. I was able to use the separator plate from my 3650 and I just cut it where I needed to so it didn't stick out below the trans.

Here is the link from PA's website for the wiring of their manual trans-brake valve body. I use open office to view the file.

http://www.performanceautomatic.com/download_file.php?cat=pv_pdf&key=365

And here is a picture of the plate I made around my shifter where you can see my trans brake button as well as the switches I have for converter lockup (red switch), overdrive (green switch) and the two blue ones are my heat exchanger fan and line lock.

 

[crownaviation]

Well...you've got a lot of questions there...

Yes, lot of questions lol. Good info in here and the more I look and think about it the more it starts to make sense. still a little fuzzy on some stuff like the OSS and why you would need it

To the best of my knowledge I thought you need to have a manual/stick pcm for it to work properly with the 4R70W. What did Lito say about it since he did the tuning on my car as well as Paul(againstallodds1) which we both have manual PCM's.

Lito said he can tune it and work around the auto PCM with this setup. If it can be done then he would be the one to figure it out. I can always pick up a manual PCM if it comes down to it tho.

Paul and I used the OSS output from the trans right to the same wires that were used in our 3650 transmissions so I can't really help you there.

What is the purpose of using the OSS unless you are auto shift? Are you saying we use that instead of the VSS?

As for the trans brake it will only engage when the trans is in first gear. There are a lot of people who use the button on the shifter for their trans brake .... make sure the button is rated for at least 10 amps but preferably 20 amps.

Glad to know about when you can engage TB. The Hurst quarter stick I am using has a 10amp switch. I am going to use it to trigger two relays.. one for the Trans Brake and one for my 2 step. Well, scratch that. I will use the damn button on the shifter to engage a THIRD relay for the reverse lights also. May as well since have to hold the button to get it to back up anyway. As far as the TB relay I may also have a switch to open the circuit if I don't want to use it but want the 2 step. That would take out reverse tho. I look at it this way, you will need a thorough checkout to drive it. Atleast it would be hard to steal lol

You will also need to make sure there is a micro switch built into the shifter for when you put it in reverse since you have to actually engage the trans brake for reverse to work.

Damn. Did not want to hear that part nor did I think about it. So the reverse is all electronic controlled similar to the OD and TC lock? I will have to just hold the damn trans brake button to get it to reverse? Just going to fall out back to neutral if you let go by accident?

You will need to wire up a switch somewhere to do that as well as for the overdrive since they are both electronic.

Just read the link to PA, thank you. The pigtail that is currently on the trans has 3 wires. Yellow/white for transbrake, yellow for converter lockup and pink/black for OD.

I don't know what dust cover you are talking about. I was able to use the separator plate from my 3650 and I just cut it where I needed to so it didn't stick out below the trans.

That was mentioned by the OP. Have not actually tried it yet but the bell looks almost identical to the 5r55s so did not understand that part. FB wants an arm and a leg for those

OK.. question So basically the MLPS (manual lever position sensor) contains the neutral/start and backup circuits? That is all we need to connect it for? I "think" the 5r55s plug will hook right up just eyeballing the connector.. as long as the pins are the same. Need to read a little more about that but it does need to be connected?

BTW.. at first I was like "eh" on the plate you made for the console/shifter. Now looking at it for a while it has really grown on me. Matter of fact.. I am probably going to do exactly what you did and use some wrap that matches my dash trim. You sir.. made my day with that. plus.. I get to keep both my cup holders and can eliminate my SOS switch panel. I love a win/win. I have nitrous, bottle heater, purge, line lock, afco fans, meziere IC pump, meziere water pump already. Damn switches can get out of control in a hurry. So far they are all pretty hard to find but running out of hiding places


.

 

[crownaviation]

Also wonder if instead of removing the sjb as the OP did to find those two wires if I could not just locate them as I "think" those two wires to the reverse lights run under the rocker panel cover on the passenger side. Just cut and cap SJB side and run my power wires somewhere over there?

My relay idea starting to sound like the way to go. I already have a painless add-a-circuit installed with 3 constant hot terminals not used. I located that just under the passenger dash so that is easy to get to.

 

[oh5gt]

You've probably already read through it but FB transmissions (Freddy Brown) has a pretty good write up on 4R70W conversion in their technical advice section.

http://www.fbperformance.com/Technical-Advice-Blog

 

[dysan]

If you are doing this and planning on getting serious in drag racing do yourself a favor and don't use a relay to activate the trans brake. What I mean is if you are going to end up getting a delay box and whatnot because the relay is just another variable that can mess up your reaction time when it is coming down to thousandths of a second. Now if you are just going to be the occasional drag racer and leaving off the bottom bulb then go for it. I had originally done mine using a relay but then noticed my reaction time varying a lot and took the relay out and it became much more consistent.

As for reverse, yes...if you let go of the button while backing up it just goes into neutral so no big deal. You should just see if there is a place that a micro switch can mount to the hurst shifter. It is standard on the B&M one I have so it was not a big deal at all. You actually want two micro switches on your shifter so that one will be your park/neutral safety switch for starting the car and the other for reverse.

I had to look up what you were talking about with the MLPS...my transmission doesn't have one of those so I am no help to you with that.

For the backup lights I just wired them to the relay I use for reverse so whenever my trans brake is activated my reverse lights turn on. I did go into the SJB to find the wire when I did mine...wasn't a big deal.

Lastly, my transmission also doesn't have the VSS sensor in it...that port is just blocked off so I'm also no help there.

 

[GI Joe]

Also wonder if instead of removing the sjb as the OP did to find those two wires if I could not just locate them as I "think" those two wires to the reverse lights run under the rocker panel cover on the passenger side. Just cut and cap SJB side and run my power wires somewhere over there?

My relay idea starting to sound like the way to go. I already have a painless add-a-circuit installed with 3 constant hot terminals not used. I located that just under the passenger dash so that is easy to get to.

Not a good idea. If you get the wrong wires, you can actually ruin the SJB..it dont like being probed! LOL

 

[TungstenGT06]

Crown, My transmission went in this weekend and we used the MLPS for the reverse lights and the neutral safety switch. We were not sure if it would work but it did work. They told me one of the reverse lights was out, so it could be a bulb or more wiring will be needed. When I find out more I will let you know.
Also I was told that a manual transmission tune can be flashed into the computer on the 05/06 cars and it should work. I'm sure Lito will have no problem with this.

 

[crownaviation]

You've probably already read through it but FB transmissions (Freddy Brown) has a pretty good write up on 4R70W conversion in their technical advice section.

Thanks, I had in the past but last couple days link did not work thru my bookmark or on the link in the sales ad. Thanks, either way I have it back now..

If you are doing this and planning on getting serious in drag racing do yourself a favor and don't use a relay to activate the trans brake.
You should just see if there is a place that a micro switch can mount to the hurst shifter. ...
You actually want two micro switches on your shifter so that one will be your park/neutral safety switch for starting the car and the other for reverse.
Lastly, my transmission also doesn't have the VSS sensor in it...that port is just blocked off so I'm also no help there.

Cool, thanks for the info. I have read some do not use the VSS and operate off the OSS. From what I have read it may be easier to use the OSS afterall for the speedo

So, I was planning on finding/using a solid state relay for the Trans brake. There is little to no delay with those over a mechanical relay. I suppose one does not need to be used for that and the 2step does not matter that much.

The Hurst shifter has a neutral safety switch and not sure how I can mount a reverse switch yet..

Crown, My transmission went in this weekend and we used the MLPS for the reverse lights and the neutral safety switch. We were not sure if it would work but it did work. They told me one of the reverse lights was out, so it could be a bulb or more wiring will be needed. When I find out more I will let you know.
Also I was told that a manual transmission tune can be flashed into the computer on the 05/06 cars and it should work. I'm sure Lito will have no problem with this.

That ROCKS! I have the plug as mine was also a auto before. I think the manual guys are missing that plug but it does have the signal. I could probably use the neutral safety switch there and use the neutral safety switch on my Hurst for the reverse...

I was told the same about the computer so happy to hear that

 

[dysan]

I would be leery of using an ssr just for the reason that when they fail they usually fail in the closed position. I have read up quite a bit on relays when building my powder coating oven and that was the biggest complaint with the solid state relays. The last thing I would want would be for the trans brake to activate when down shifting the car at speed!!!

 

[crownaviation]

I would be leery of using an ssr just for the reason that when they fail they usually fail in the closed position. I have read up quite a bit on relays when building my powder coating oven and that was the biggest complaint with the solid state relays. The last thing I would want would be for the trans brake to activate when down shifting the car at speed!!!

Sometimes my thinking out loud has its benefits! Thanks I was not aware of that scenario using solid state relay... good info for all

 

[05moneypit]

Mine is wired using the MLPS, there is a pig tail available from ford for the 4R70. Not sure what the part number is, it may be one of them listed in the FB write up. If you don't want to have to push the trans brake button for reverse to work you can wire a relay in to one of the reverse lights so that when you put the shifter in reverse the reverse light triggers the relay and picks up the trans brake solenoid.