2015 mustang hits the track

[NUTCASE]

I think the corvette is still using the leaf spring shit.

As for those other cars with not-so-impressive handling, I wouldn't know about their rear suspension, but lots of good handling cars have coil-over-strut, and not just the expensive ones.

It does look like most of these big/heavy IRS cars do tend to not be coil-overs, for example the 370Z, M3, etc.

I don't know why so many people knock the vettes mono leaf. It has been proving effective on a world class scale since the 60's.

advantages of monoleaf the people don't know about:

its lighter. the monoleaf and connecting parts are lighter than coil springs and thier connecting parts

it allows for more wheel width by not having a spring where you can fit more tire

lower center of gravity

more freedom for other designs around the chassis since the spring is connected in the middle of the bottom somewhere thereby eliminating strut towers.

its design allows you to bring the point where the spring connects to the suspension closer to the center of the wheel hub. bringing the spring/shock connecting points closer to the center of the wheel has been proven to give better handling without sacrificing ride quality.




and if coil overs and McPherson type struts really are the only way to go, apparently Porsche never got the memo.......

 

[claudermilk]

How many production cars come with coilover rear suspension? Honest question, go ahead and answer. The BMW M3 doesn't, the Camaro doesn't, the Challenger doesn't. I'm not sure the new Corvette does either but I do know the new Viper does (Comes with KW coilovers from the factory).

I share your "disdain" for the poor motion ratios of the spring but the tradeoff for spring motion ratio is shock motion ratio because in order to add the spring over the rear shock you are going to have to give up more wheel space and in order to do that the shock has to be mounted further inboard. If that sounds like a good idea to you then I don't think this conversation needs to continue. It's a HORRIBLE idea. I'd rather have near 1:1 shocks then .6:1 shocks since shocks keep the tire in contact with the ground.

Also, this IRS unit shares nothing in common with the God forsaken Cobra IRS that so many Mustang owners associate modern IRS's with. That IRS was a compromised shoe horn and it sucked ass in stock form and it was only marginally tolerable once modified. The geometry was completely fucked because it had to fit under a live axle floor pan, something the new IRS unit wont. Also, if rumors are true (and they look to be) this IRS unit shares a lot of features that the Integral Link IRS on the Fusion and on the new BMW M3's currently have which is a brilliant, simple and effective IRS design. The front suspension is a modern strut setup with virtual pivot point for improved scrub radius (for wider tires with low offsets) and the rear suspension is matching it. Ford is not going to ship this car globally with a POS IRS unit under it. Sorry, not going to happen.

This.

Looking at that new shot of the IRS, I was thinking those control arms look a lot like the Fusion ones, just beefier.

 

[gizmo5]

I do know the new Viper does (Comes with KW coilovers from the factory).

All Vipers come with coilovers. Gens 1-5

I do think that everyone needs to let go of their fear of IRS. The new mustang will definitely have a solid IRS that performs very well because the chassis was designed for it from the get go.

 

[05yellowgt]

All Vipers come with coilovers. Gens 1-5

I do think that everyone needs to let go of their fear of IRS. The new mustang will definitely have a solid IRS that performs very well because the chassis was designed for it from the get go.

A Solid IRS You Say???

 

[gizmo5]

A Solid IRS You Say???

LMAO! Solid as in hardy, works well, robust.

 

[Riptide]

Is that from scanners?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatwat

 

[tjm73]

Is that from scanners?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatwat

Yes. One of my favorite gifs. LOL

 

[NUTCASE]

they did not put an IRS in the 2005 because so many people complained that they wanted a SRA. It is past time for ford to make the mustang a world class car. A part of that is moving to IRS.

for those of you that want to knock down 1.4 60's and faster I am sure a SRA swap kit will be available not long after the new stangs release. for the rest of us I am sure the IRS + some bolt ons will be just fine.

people have been running 9's in vettes with IRS for a while now and there are a few IRS RWD cars out there that can 60' pretty hard. There are GTOs out there lifting the front wheels with IRS and if you look you can find pics of old T-bird supercoupes with the IRS that everyone hates lifting the wheels also.

 

[Whiskey11]

and if coil overs and McPherson type struts really are the only way to go, apparently Porsche never got the memo.......

Ehhh, as ironic as it is, Porsche never got the memo about the insanely high amounts of inertia generated by trailbraking in a rear engined car until safety regulations FORCED them to make their cars not kill their occupants when they were unskilled drivers. The irony is that Porsche, like the Mustang, has held onto a simple and reasonably effective setup with the way their cars are that they really have perfected a rear engined car much in the same way Ford has really done a phenomenal job with the live axle under the Mustang.

That doesn't make it right!

And MacPherson struts FTL.

As for the Corvette's monoleaf, this isn't your daddy's 1967 Camaro leaf spring, it's mounted laterally and is still supported by conventional springs. It is a supplement to those springs much in the same way a swaybar is but it works in a different way. I'm glad Chevy sticks to it because it does have advantages.

Speaking of wheel space I was told by a friends with a tape measure there is 16" of room between the inner and outer fender! Can you say crazy fat rubber?!?!

A birdie also told me that the SVT car(s) will have 13" wide rear wheels stock......and you know they always leave room for more.

More importantly, can I fit 13" wide rear wheels front and rear with the same offset or am I going to be stuck with some bull shit offsets requiring staggered wheels of the same width like the S197 is with anything larger than 18x10.5?

 

[NUTCASE]

hmmmm, I thought the monoleaf did all the work. guess I have to look into that one some more.

 

[zquez]

More importantly, can I fit 13" wide rear wheels front and rear with the same offset or am I going to be stuck with some bull shit offsets requiring staggered wheels of the same width like the S197 is with anything larger than 18x10.5?

Based on the SVT mule's concave/non-concave wheel setup I'm going guess no....

 

[Whiskey11]

Based on the SVT mule's concave/non-concave wheel setup I'm going guess no....

I think I'm going to dick punch the Ford engineers... Hopefully 18x10.5 will fit square front and rear, hopefully maybe even 18x11... I can make those work, but the 18x10 square and under the fenders crap on the S197 is annoying.

And yes, the Corvettes definitely have conventional coil springs... it appears, from this picture that they are coil spring over the shocks:

 

[HEMI LOL]

those rear lower control arms look EXACTLY the ones on my SHO. i wonder if the "new" IRS is still volvo parts bin.

 

[marcspaz]

huh... mono leaf and a sway stabilizer bar... nice. All that stiffening, why not just weld everything in place? LOL Or an anti-roll bar link so it only goes up and down.

 

[Conekiller]

As for the Corvette's monoleaf, this isn't your daddy's 1967 Camaro leaf spring, it's mounted laterally and is still supported by conventional springs. It is a supplement to those springs much in the same way a swaybar is but it works in a different way. I'm glad Chevy sticks to it because it does have advantages.

You may be mistaking Whiskey, I don't recall any springs other than the monoleafs on the 2008 vette I had, and I was under that car more than a few times. There definitely weren't any mounted over the shock dust boots (like a traditional coilover) as you suggest from that picture. Though I do believe Eibach makes a coilover kit that supplements the already existing leaf springs in that manner vs most others that have you remove the factory leafs during installation of their coilover kits.

Edit: Those look a lot like factory dust covers for the shocks when taking a closer look.

 

[908ssp]

I think I'm going to dick punch the Ford engineers... Hopefully 18x10.5 will fit square front and rear, hopefully maybe even 18x11... I can make those work, but the 18x10 square and under the fenders crap on the S197 is annoying.

And yes, the Corvettes definitely have conventional coil springs... it appears, from this picture that they are coil spring over the shocks:

That is not a coil spring that is a rubber cover for the shock shaft.

 

[NUTCASE]

yeah after that one post I did a bunch of searching and could not find a pic of a vette suspension with coil springs. I saw some eibach kits that came with coil springs, but that was it.

that pic just reminded me of my friend who insists on buying these top of the line racing clutches and flywheels for his street driven z06. he is on his 4th clutch in 7000 miles now and every time he has to drop that big ass tube LOL.

 

[Whiskey11]

Hmmm, I suppose you are right, I guess I was struggling to connect how Corvettes adjust their ride height in a leaf spring only configuration and Wikipedia came to the rescue. For some reason I would have figured it would have been supplemental rather than the ONLY spring in the suspension.

Not that any of that truly matters to the discussion at hand about IRS's and divorced spring and shock combos.

 

[TimMcc]

No thanks.

 

[Department Of Boost]

More importantly, can I fit 13" wide rear wheels front and rear with the same offset or am I going to be stuck with some bull shit offsets requiring staggered wheels of the same width like the S197 is with anything larger than 18x10.5?

From what I hear the front SVT wheels are 11".