2008 Stage 3 ROUSH - Rebirth...

[BadPiggy]

156-5901 is the ARP link I posted up.
Apparently there are 2 numbers...one with windage tray, one without.
I didn't lookup side bolts because you didn't ask. LOL!

Looks like you have the correct numbers.

 

[skwerl]

Head studs are 256-4202 in case you need those as well. I didn't assemble my short block so I didn't research those numbers.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Head studs are 256-4202 in case you need those as well. I didn't assemble my short block so I didn't research those numbers.

I'm not going to use the head stud kit... After reading so many stories of installation issues, between improper install to incorrect instructions from ARP, I'll stick to OEM bolts. lol

 

[skwerl]

Head studs are great, you just can't torque them to 110-115 foot lbs like the old, incorrect ARP guide specified. 90-95 is perfect.

 

[BruceH]

I'm not going to use the head stud kit... After reading so many stories of installation issues, between improper install to incorrect instructions from ARP, I'll stick to OEM bolts. lol

You need to make sure that your torque plates use the same fasteners and torque as you plan to use. Otherwise bore deflection can be induced during the hone. If you are using tty you really don't need the torque plate imo. Ford designed the mod motor for minimal bore deflection and the tty hardware is part of that.

A good example would be Todd. He used torque plates for the hone and for gapping the rings. During the process he noticed bore deflection.

Did you supply the machine shop with a head changing kit? They will need the tty hardware and head gaskets in order to do a proper torque plate hone.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Did you supply the machine shop with a head changing kit? They will need the tty hardware and head gaskets in order to do a proper torque plate hone.

No...

I thought you said your blocks never got torque plated!!??
Not sure what the process is yet. They still have to take the short block apart and mic (sp?) everything.

 

[BruceH]

No...

I thought you said your blocks never got torque plated!!??
Not sure what the process is yet. They still have to take the short block apart and mic (sp?) everything.

I don't have mine torque plated. I do know what the procedure consists of though. I only posted that because you had said you were having them torque plate honed. If you aren't having that process done and are using tty hardware then there is nothing to be concerned with.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Man this wrenching is going slow!!! I want to get it done and back on the road!!!

Short block still at the machine shop; still not taken apart.

Did some wrenching tonight; test fitted my new rear brake setup from Baer.

ROUSH OEM size slotted rotors with OEM caliper and pads.

Rotors are rusty due to washing the car before I retired it for surgery.

Here is the new setup being test fitted:

Baer 14" 2-piece slotted rotor. Uses OEM caliper, but the future plan is to swap it out with the front 4 piston ROUSH BBK and swap the fronts to 6 piston ROUSH BBK.

Tight fit like the front brakes

Hopefully these will slightly reduce the load the fronts were experiencing at the track last year. I melted the front brake pads.

 

[tigerhonaker]

Looks really good ^^^



Terry

 

[Pentalab]

Since oem rear calipers are being used on the new 14" rear rotor's... they must have used some kind of offset spacer ? IE: the oem 1 piston rear caliper still has the same surface area... but is grabbing the outer portion of the 14" rotor. IOW, it's still not grabbing the un-used, inner portion of the new 14" rear rotor.

Ok, are you sure the 4 piston front calipers will even fit in the rears ??? And clear the 20" rims ?

On a similar note, if I have it correct, the rotor's are just big heatsinks. One way to cool things down a bit might be to air cool both the front + rear rotors. Air is free, so why not use it. I put the cdc brake ducts + 14" front rotor dust shields on my 2010. However, I'm still using the oem 12.4" front rotor's. My front 18" x 9" chrome bullitt rims won't clear the typ 14" rotor + 4/6 piston BBK.

The CDC brake duct kit uses 2.5" silicone hoses. I believe the FRPP kit uses 3" silicone hoses. Adding hoses to the rears would work, but might be a bit of a trick to install, and clear everything. 2.5" to 3.0" hoses..morphed down to an oval shape might be the ticket. At least with any rear hoses, they are fixed..... not like the fronts..that have to be long enough to allow front wheels to lock side to side.

Jimbo

 

[AutoXRacer]

Since oem rear calipers are being used on the new 14" rear rotor's... they must have used some kind of offset spacer ? IE: the oem 1 piston rear caliper still has the same surface area... but is grabbing the outer portion of the 14" rotor. IOW, it's still not grabbing the un-used, inner portion of the new 14" rear rotor.

Ok, are you sure the 4 piston front calipers will even fit in the rears ??? And clear the 20" rims ?

On a similar note, if I have it correct, the rotor's are just big heatsinks. One way to cool things down a bit might be to air cool both the front + rear rotors. Air is free, so why not use it. I put the cdc brake ducts + 14" front rotor dust shields on my 2010. However, I'm still using the oem 12.4" front rotor's. My front 18" x 9" chrome bullitt rims won't clear the typ 14" rotor + 4/6 piston BBK.

The CDC brake duct kit uses 2.5" silicone hoses. I believe the FRPP kit uses 3" silicone hoses. Adding hoses to the rears would work, but might be a bit of a trick to install, and clear everything. 2.5" to 3.0" hoses..morphed down to an oval shape might be the ticket. At least with any rear hoses, they are fixed..... not like the fronts..that have to be long enough to allow front wheels to lock side to side.

Jimbo

I'll post more pictures with the pads to show how much they will contact the rotor. And BTW, my wheels are 18"...

The key to increasing diameter of the rear rotors is to have more torque (leverage) and free the front brakes from all the work. Add race pads and I am hoping my track braking will be greatly increased.

For street pads I'll be using Carbotech 1521s and for race pads XP20 in the front and X10 in the rears.
Carbotech compounds: http://www.ctbrakes.com/brake-compounds.asp

 

[Pentalab]

I'll post more pictures with the pads to show how much they will contact the rotor. And BTW, my wheels are 18"...

The key to increasing diameter of the rear rotors is to have more torque (leverage) and free the front brakes from all the work. Add race pads and I am hoping my track braking will be greatly increased.

For street pads I'll be using Carbotech 1521s and for race pads XP20 in the front and X10 in the rears.
Carbotech compounds: http://www.ctbrakes.com/brake-compounds.asp

OK, IOW, with a bigger diam rotor, the circumference is also bigger, and hence the speed of the outer edge will be faster? IE: you get a helluva lot more friction for a given axle RPM.

Dunno how much brake bias is actually optimum (front to rear ratio). The front brakes are supposedly taking 70-80% of the load. With stiff springs /shocks....the front end of the car won't nose dive as much...and the back end won't lift as much.

Something else to consider is ..when brake pedal pressed.... do all 4 x brake calipers activate at once...or do the front calipers engage a split second b4 the rears ? ( I think this is what's really meant re brake bias).
If the rears engage b4 the fronts, the back end will kick out.

I see some folks are using 15" front rotors and 6 piston calipers....and 14" rears + 4 piston calipers. I highly suspect the reason for the oem 11.8" rear rotor's + 1 piston caliper is so 15" rims can be used for drag racing.

Jimbo

 

[Surfstang2020]

She's coming along good

 

[AutoXRacer]

OK, IOW, with a bigger diam rotor, the circumference is also bigger, and hence the speed of the outer edge will be faster? IE: you get a helluva lot more friction for a given axle RPM.

Dunno how much brake bias is actually optimum (front to rear ratio). The front brakes are supposedly taking 70-80% of the load. With stiff springs /shocks....the front end of the car won't nose dive as much...and the back end won't lift as much.

Something else to consider is ..when brake pedal pressed.... do all 4 x brake calipers activate at once...or do the front calipers engage a split second b4 the rears ? ( I think this is what's really meant re brake bias).
If the rears engage b4 the fronts, the back end will kick out.

I see some folks are using 15" front rotors and 6 piston calipers....and 14" rears + 4 piston calipers. I highly suspect the reason for the oem 11.8" rear rotor's + 1 piston caliper is so 15" rims can be used for drag racing.

Jimbo

Actually the larger the diameter, the slower the revolution; kind of like a gear, the smaller it is the faster it will spin, the larger it is, the slower it will spin at the same rotation.

The benefit of the larger rotor is better heat dissipation and more leverage/torque to stop/slow down.

 

[Pentalab]

Actually the larger the diameter, the slower the revolution; kind of like a gear, the smaller it is the faster it will spin, the larger it is, the slower it will spin at the same rotation.

The benefit of the larger rotor is better heat dissipation and more leverage/torque to stop/slow down.

I can understand the better heat diss + more leverage / tq concept.

However, if the axle spins XXX rpm, the bigger the diam the rotor, the faster it spins. Same deal with using bigger diam rear tires. A 29" diam tire will make the car go faster vs a 27" diam tire..for the same eng rpm. A 10" table saw has a faster tooth speed vs a 7.25" blade...for the same 3k rpm.

Think back to ww2 fighter planes. With props > 14' diam, the tips would go supersonic...and explode. The fix for that in some cases was to square off the ends.

The oem 11.8" rear rotor + air cooling will provide the added heat diss effect.... but it won't provide the greater leverage /tq of a 14" rear rotor.

On some of the race cars... they have a brake bias adjustment inside the car, to allow fine adjustment of the front- rear brake bias. IE: how much sooner the front calipers close vs the rear calipers.

I can see how races are won or lost....cuz of brakes. More rubber on the road would help too.... like a 285 front /315 rear setup. But with ABS, the rotor's will never lock up anyway. Stand on the brakes at 100 mph...and the ABS won't kick in. Trying to slow down a 4000 lb GT-500 @ 150+ mph is no mean feat.

Whatever you do, I'd still seriously consider air cooling at least the front rotor's as a minimum, and preferably the rear's too.

Jimbo

 

[AutoXRacer]

Engine shop just called... sigh

Need new pistons... Pistons collapsed; thats just a term to indicate the skirts are scuffed.

Need to source out new pistons in a 10 over bore. sigh

 

[skwerl]

That sucks.

 

[AutoXRacer]

I should stick to modding RC Cars... LOL

 

[BruceH]

Engine shop just called... sigh

Need new pistons... Pistons collapsed; thats just a term to indicate the skirts are scuffed.

Need to source out new pistons in a 10 over bore. sigh

It's not that big of a deal imo. You are already paying for machine work and all the wrenching. This just added about $600-$800 to the bill. Any idea of what you want to go with? What compression height do you need, 1.150?

 

[05stroker]

Engine shop just called... sigh

Need new pistons... Pistons collapsed; thats just a term to indicate the skirts are scuffed.

Need to source out new pistons in a 10 over bore. sigh

I don't understand that. Every piston that has ever came out of my motors has the skirts scuffed a little. What do they mean "collapsed"?

Why not just have them moly coated.