2013 GT500 Oil Pump and 4.6 3v comparisons.

[rayS197]

Gmitch posted somewhere that most oil pump failures were due to the belt tensioner bottoming out, which would be like smacking your crank with a sledgehammer- sideways. Seems like the broken oil pump would be a symptom, not the root problem.

I wonder what the ratio on oil pumps going south on auto vs manual whatever the cause?? Bottomed out tensioner, balancer, etc...

 

[stkjock]

Gmitch posted somewhere that most oil pump failures were due to the belt tensioner bottoming out, which would be like smacking your crank with a sledgehammer- sideways. Seems like the broken oil pump would be a symptom, not the root problem.

the oil pump failure is a consequence, if that is in fact the cause, IMO any shock to the crank, whatever the cause, puts it at risk.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Gmitch posted somewhere that most oil pump failures were due to the belt tensioner bottoming out, which would be like smacking your crank with a sledgehammer- sideways. Seems like the broken oil pump would be a symptom, not the root problem.

Only one of the possible issues. Bruce is spot on with the theory that bad balancers or mis-balanced motors wipe out pumps too. The shop that did all my machining told me to use a good balancer because they were having issues with the stock ones.

The pumps could also be all over the place as far as tolerances go too.

There are more than one reason why the pumps can fail.

 

[one eyed willy]

My car is turbo, so had nothing to do with supercharger...my first built was using a stock pump, balancing could have been questionable, I hated the machine shop I used.

I'm sure the oil pump breaking is a result of something else, just like breaking or bending a rod is usually a result of something else. Either way I don't want mine to break again, lol, my second motor used TSS gears in a TSS pump housing, my third motor is TSS gears in a 13 GT500 housing with billet back plate.

 

[BruceH]

My car is turbo, so had nothing to do with supercharger...my first built was using a stock pump, balancing could have been questionable, I hated the machine shop I used.

I'm sure the oil pump breaking is a result of something else, just like breaking or bending a rod is usually a result of something else. Either way I don't want mine to break again, lol, my second motor used TSS gears in a TSS pump housing, my third motor is TSS gears in a 13 GT500 housing with billet back plate.

Your build is where I got the idea for the billet back plate. IIRC the first motor had something like .007" ptb, is that correct?

I've had udps before but won't run them again. The first set were Steeda and I could physically tell the difference when the stock balancer went back on. The Steeda made the motor buzzy. The second set were TFS and they weren't buzzy. I really don't think they make any difference hp wise.

 

[sportinawoody]

My car is turbo, so had nothing to do with supercharger...my first built was using a stock pump, balancing could have been questionable, I hated the machine shop I used.

I'm sure the oil pump breaking is a result of something else, just like breaking or bending a rod is usually a result of something else. Either way I don't want mine to break again, lol, my second motor used TSS gears in a TSS pump housing, my third motor is TSS gears in a 13 GT500 housing with billet back plate.

bumping this thread back to confirm you can use the 13 oil pump with tss gears on a 3v without locking out cams ? do you use the 13 spring and valve or swap out for the 3v spring and valve as im just limiting vct ? have the gears, need a housing to fit the bill

 

[go302]

bumping this thread back to confirm you can use the 13 oil pump with tss gears on a 3v without locking out cams ? do you use the 13 spring and valve or swap out for the 3v spring and valve as im just limiting vct ? have the gears, need a housing to fit the bill

I plan on doing the same, but my cams are locked out. Turbo car with a '13-'14 pump and tss gears.

 

[jodadejss06gt]

Willy what happened when you lost your pump....I just assumed that the shock was non existent with stick turbo cars, but I guess you can still shock the crank on a hard launch. Does that mean our cars still need a good balancer?

 

[rayS197]

Jason, my advice would be to purchase a decent balancer ATI/ IW. You can find great deals from ATI on their ebay site.

Sent from a Galaxy S3

 

[one eyed willy]

Willy what happened when you lost your pump....I just assumed that the shock was non existent with stick turbo cars, but I guess you can still shock the crank on a hard launch. Does that mean our cars still need a good balancer?

drag strip, 1st or 2nd run of the day, probably realized it around 3rd gear.

that was the first mod motor i built myself, the shop i used i would safe was questionable on their balancing practices, motor ran great up until that point.

 

[jodadejss06gt]

Good to know! My guy is pretty legit and if Mike Rousch trusts him then I'm good with him fixing mine up.

 

[crownaviation]

Found this online lol.. the video of the pump failure (weak back plate) starts at 1.46 in the video.

 

[one eyed willy]

Found this online lol.. the video of the pump failure (weak back plate) starts at 1.46 in the video.

Sweet video!

 

[crownaviation]

I wonder what that does to the cam lobes and followers at high rpm???

 

[BeachMonkey100]

I wonder what that does to the cam lobes and followers at high rpm???

this.. lol

 

[crownaviation]

this.. lol

My thoughts exactly... those will clean up tho

 

[BeachMonkey100]

My thoughts exactly... those will clean up tho

That's what I pulled apart from a complete motor I got that lost oil pressure. not sure if I will have them fixed or try to sell them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[swflastang05]

bumping this thread back to confirm you can use the 13 oil pump with tss gears on a 3v without locking out cams ? do you use the 13 spring and valve or swap out for the 3v spring and valve as im just limiting vct ? have the gears, need a housing to fit the bill

Does anyone know the answer to this ^^^ I'm gathering parts for my upcoming build and plan to have these items on my list.

 

[JeremyH]

The answer is yes.

 

[BruceH]

Does anyone know the answer to this ^^^ I'm gathering parts for my upcoming build and plan to have these items on my list.

IMO you would be best served by doing the research and deciding what will be best for your application. If you are using stock clearances then use what Ford speced for a 3v. If you aren't then get out the sliderule and start calculating residual pressures and flow rates for the viscosity of oil you plan on using. Adjust the clearances to maintain a positive oil wedge that keeps physical separation between rotating parts. There will also have to be enough flow and psi to properly lubricate the top end including the need for a wedge related to the cam journals. Quite a few people have trashed their cams and heads by not getting it right.

I'd suggest you start by reading about the 3v motor itself. Start with description and operation. Keep reading about the whys and what for until you have a solid grasp of why the specifications are what they are. Then decide if you should change any of them for your application.

Here is the 4.6 3v manual courtesy of Louie in Dubai. http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=158