Compressed Air Supercharging

[Department Of Boost]

blue paint and a nos stencil

lol!


Nawz!!!!!

 

[s8v4o]

You're thinking like I am. I've got the big argon bottles here, they are 330cf. So there's 20 seconds at 1000CFM. That bottle is 5 feet long, where are you going to put it?

I'm thinking how are you going to fill the tanks at the track? If using something like a SCUBA compressor, you won't like those prices. Plus they take a significant amount of time to fill tanks, I'm seeing 20 min to take a 80cf tank from 500 to 3000 psi and that compressor costs over $3k. 80CF would be good for 4.8 seconds at 1000CFM. Really less because I can't imagine it being effective once pressure drops enough.

I have no doubt it can work, I just don't see the practicality until/unless the supporting hardware is much lower in price.

Funny, yesterday I was getting ready to crunch some numbers before I got to be too busy. I figured my numbers using the 1000CFM as well but only calculated for one pass (10 seconds).

((1000CFM/60sec))x10sec)= 167CF

I then started calculating how big of a tank and at what pressure I would need but got sidetracked. As for refilling I'm sure a natural gas compressor would work as well. They might be had cheaper than the one for argon.

http://www.cngnow.com/news/post.aspx?id=688

Also I think you could buy extra tanks and bring them full to the track instead of trying to compressed it while there.

Can you even compare such a "bottled air" system to a nitrous system in method of delivery?

If you're serious about nitrous you most certainly can fill it yourself.

http://www.nitrousdirect.com/nitrous-refill-station.html

As for using a tank of compressed air for boost... how? Do you have a link for this article?

I'm just curious. Any conventional means of supercharging, positive pressure is achieved only when the system between the source of positive pressure and the intake valves are sealed. Under normal operation, a bypass valve or blow-off valve allows the induction system to relieve pressure, allowing the intake manifold to achieve vacuum. (Which some vehicle systems rely on that vacuum to perform other functions, such as PCV/EGR.)

This compressed air system can't be routed like a nitrous system would. In fact, if it was, it would most likely hurt performance or cause damage to the engine. If you try to introduce more, and denser air directly into the intake manifold, you would be bypassing the MAF with un-metered air. If you could even pump enough air into the manifold at WOT, the air would just back-flow out of your intake tube. MAF wash wouldn't even begin to describe it.

Unless you can find a way to completely seal the intake tube from the filter, and then somehow blow that cold compressed air over the MAF, such a system will never create positive pressure in the manifold, let alone be less than a mother fvcker to tune. Remember that positive pressure is, foremost, all the extra air that the engine *is not* consuming. Air will follow the path of least resistance. In the case of a typical N/A EFI engine, that would be right out the air filter.

I would have to read about filling nitrous because I know the retailers claim to be getting hit really hard with fees and taxes and I'm not sure how that would play out for the home user trying to buy BULK and fill the bottles themselves. Also nitrous is still more expensive than air. Buying in bulk can save some money but it's still a major expense.

As far as delivery goes sure it would have to be preMAF for it to work properly. Also I think we have the technology to make it better than simply on or off. Variable delivery based on the TPS could work. I'm sure we could learn something from CNG vehicles as well.


Here's something that we can do today and on our own. It might not be be a huge boost in performance but it might give a little. For every 10 degree drop in temp we can expect to see roughly a 1% increase in power. Plumbing compressed air into the inlet of the airbox would cool the intake charge some. I can't really guess at any numbers but it would be interesting to see the ACT during a datalog with it on versus off. Also the MAF would make all the corrections so no tune would be necessary. If we can drop lets say 40 degrees then we could expect close to a 4% increase in power. That would be the same as going up one full point in compression.

It's an interesting concept none the less.

 

[jodadejss06gt]

My question....whats capping off the air filter side of the intake????

You can't just hook a port up to the side of the intake mani or air intake and blow compressed air in it. I really want to read the article to figure out what they are doing?

 

[weather man]

My question....whats capping off the air filter side of the intake????

You can't just hook a port up to the side of the intake mani or air intake and blow compressed air in it. I really want to read the article to figure out what they are doing?

It looks like you have to buy the mag or be an online member to read the article.

 

[19COBRA93]

I'm interested in this only as an IAT cooler. If I could mount a smaller bottle in the front bumper area, and blast air into the filter/inlet during maybe 3rd/4th gear at the track, that's all I need.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I'm interested in this only as an IAT cooler. If I could mount a smaller bottle in the front bumper area, and blast air into the filter/inlet during maybe 3rd/4th gear at the track, that's all I need.

You won't see an IAT drop doing that. The problem with GT500's is not enough pump/restrictive IC. You are probably only moving .65-70gal during a pass. Even if you hit it and it super cooled the water (which it won't) when you left the line it wouldn't be in the IC till after the run was over.

We will have a upgraded IC for the GT500's (and not that Kenne Bell bullshit). It's in the works. Where do you live? I need testers.

 

[19COBRA93]

You won't see an IAT drop doing that. The problem with GT500's is not enough pump/restrictive IC. You are probably only moving .65-70gal during a pass. Even if you hit it and it super cooled the water (which it won't) when you left the line it wouldn't be in the IC till after the run was over.

We will have a upgraded IC for the GT500's (and not that Kenne Bell bullshit). It's in the works. Where do you live? I need testers.

I'm in Utah. I'm currently building a trunk mounted tank with a much bigger pump and lines. And I will be running ice at the track. At 25lbs currently I'm boiling the intercooler system by 3rd gear, so I've got plenty of heat transfer through the intercooler, but the lack of flow, and lack of capacity is killing my HP. I'm looking for anything I can get in the IAT department, as well as any advice.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I'm in Utah. I'm currently building a trunk mounted tank with a much bigger pump and lines. And I will be running ice at the track. At 25lbs currently I'm boiling the intercooler system by 3rd gear, so I've got plenty of heat transfer through the intercooler, but the lack of flow, and lack of capacity is killing my HP. I'm looking for anything I can get in the IAT department, as well as any advice.

A bigger pump will help. So will ice water. But it won't solve it. I'm working on a Terminator project right now and it has an ice chest, big line and a big pump at 24psi it is getting IAT's in the 160's. We're working on a intercooer with -16 in/out as a dual pass and one that is sorted a single pass with 2 x-16 in and 2x -16 out.

We want to do a GT500 setup too. It will take us making that entire "water manifold" thing on the front of the intake though (this is what we did for the Termi). That is going to be a bitch. But we can do it.

I'm sending you a PM right now.

 

[s8v4o]

You won't see an IAT drop doing that. The problem with GT500's is not enough pump/restrictive IC. You are probably only moving .65-70gal during a pass. Even if you hit it and it super cooled the water (which it won't) when you left the line it wouldn't be in the IC till after the run was over.

We will have a upgraded IC for the GT500's (and not that Kenne Bell bullshit). It's in the works. Where do you live? I need testers.

I don't believe his intentions were to spray the heat exchanger. He wants to spray into the inlet of the air filter if I'm not mistaking. This way the filter is ingesting cooler air than what's normally under the hood.

 

[19COBRA93]

I don't believe his intentions were to spray the heat exchanger. He wants to spray into the inlet of the air filter if I'm not mistaking. This way the filter is ingesting cooler air than what's normally under the hood.

Yes, that's what I had in mind. Honestly though, my real heat is coming from the SC discharge temps, so that's what I need to focus on. Once I get a handle on those temps, then I'll consider something like this.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I don't believe his intentions were to spray the heat exchanger. He wants to spray into the inlet of the air filter if I'm not mistaking. This way the filter is ingesting cooler air than what's normally under the hood.

That went right by me.

 

[s8v4o]

Yes, that's what I had in mind. Honestly though, my real heat is coming from the SC discharge temps, so that's what I need to focus on. Once I get a handle on those temps, then I'll consider something like this.

Certainly I see your point. Note that for every degree drop you see at the filter should net the same drop going into the motor, even after being compressed and cooler by the intercooler.

That went right by me.

It happens sometimes!

 

[Department Of Boost]

Certainly I see your point. Note that for every degree drop you see at the filter should net the same drop going into the motor, even after being compressed and cooler by the intercooler.

This isn't actually correct. I would have thought this myself, but testing has shown me otherwise. I have a thermocouple in my air filter (IAT1) as well as pre and post HE. All I do is review that data. At a certain point the IAT2 (post IC) will "flatline" no matter how far the IAT1's and water temps get. I've driven the car for up to an hour when it's 35deg out too. So it was as "cold soaked" as it can get.

At a point the IAT2's stop dropping. I'm sure like anything it is combination of things but I think the main factor is the heat coming through the intake manifold from the heads/coolant. That is a significant heat source.

 

[tjm73]

Is this compressed air totally replacing the atmospheric air?

 

[weather man]

Is this compressed air totally replacing the atmospheric air?

Yes

 

[dark steed]

Here's a random thought: O2 is roughly 20% of atmospheric volume, and it greatly accelerates combustion.
Why not run pure oxygen? Seems like it would allow more fuel to be added due to combustion properties...

 

[weather man]

Here's a random thought: O2 is roughly 20% of atmospheric volume, and it greatly accelerates combustion.
Why not run pure oxygen? Seems like it would allow more fuel to be added due to combustion properties...

Expensive.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Here's a random thought: O2 is roughly 20% of atmospheric volume, and it greatly accelerates combustion.
Why not run pure oxygen? Seems like it would allow more fuel to be added due to combustion properties...

Pure o2 kills astronauts.

 

[dark steed]

Expensive.

Ahhh, yes. There's always that consideration.

 

[weather man]

Ahhh, yes. There's always that consideration.

Also, like gmitch said, extremely volatile.