St-xta coil overs? Opinions???

[csamsh]

Honestly, if bilstein made a height adjustable coilover with no rebound adjustment it would suit most people's needs. Most people that think they need an adjustable shock, really don't. Especially when you consider that it only costs $60 to revalve a bilstein. Versus $150 for Koni, AST etc.

100% agreed....and an adjustable Bilstein coilover would likely be AST money anyway.

 

[Norm Peterson]

About ride height adjustability only - sounds like something for the appearance crowd to brag about having. so they can add it as a line item on their car show posters.

It doesn't take very long or much experimentation to discover that rebound damping adjustments can and will affect ride quality. That's reason enough for having adjustability for the longer occasions when there are riders on board who aren't happy at whatever level of ride firmness that you can at least tolerate on a daily basis.


Norm

 

[kcbrown]

RX8s are a SLA setup, which doesn't put as much stress on the shock as a strut design. Which is what "I" think is the major issue with Koni's and twin tubes in general. The bilstein is inverted, so the side forces are put onto the body of the strut, instead of the shaft.

Question on inverted dampers.

Where does the side force in question come from? Is it because the bottom mount is not on a pivot? If so, where does this inversion happen in the strut? I'm looking at, e.g., Vorshlag's page on the Bilstein strut, and the strut certainly looks the same as a non-inverted strut from the outside, so I don't see how the forces can possibly differ in this respect -- you'll still have bending load on the strut and on the shaft.

I can see how it would help in the rear, where you really can invert the damper.

 

[csamsh]

Inverted strut:

Struts are by definition a stressed member of a suspension- side forces happen all the time- braking and acceleration stress the strut as well as cornering.

the forces don't differ- the surface area over which they're dissipated does.

 

[kcbrown]

Inverted strut:

Hmm...I'm not seeing a huge amount of difference between the two in terms of their ability to resist the resulting bending forces on the shaft. The standard strut has a thicker wall that can resist such forces better, but a thinner shaft.

Are the forces sufficient to actually bend the shaft? If not, then is the concern primarily one of wear?

Struts are by definition a stressed member of a suspension- side forces happen all the time- braking and acceleration stress the strut as well as cornering.

the forces don't differ- the surface area over which they're dissipated does.

OK, that makes sense. Thanks for the clear explanation.

 

[jmauld]

Call KONI and ask them what will happen if you run r-comps with their yellows. They told me they were not designed to withstand the forces of r-comps or motorsports usage.

 

[sheizasosay]

Call KONI and ask them what will happen if you run r-comps with their yellows. They told me they were not designed to withstand the forces of r-comps or motorsports usage.

You will win National Championships in autocross ????

 

[todcp]

Koni announced a Koni/H&R trackday kit on Nov 11. Not much info regarding what cars it will be available for but the specs on the Koni web site look great. Hope they offer a kit for our cars. And hope it is priced well.
"Formula 1 Technology finding its way into Trackday use"
Proven F1 Technology
8 repeatable adjustment positions in rebound and bump
Fully independent rebound and bump adjustability
Wide adjustment range
Mono tube dampers front (UPSD) and rear
No external reservoir required
Application development & springs with H&R
Applicable for both road and track use
2 year warranty on manufacturing faults*
Money back guarantee*

 

[o2sys]

2 years on Manufacturing faults...so basically no warranty.

 

[jmauld]

Even KONI admits that monotubes are superior for strut applications.

When struts are being used on the suspension, KONI and H&R have chosen an up-side-down configuration of a mono tube damper. This configuration allows a very high side load, combined with a very solid damper setup; a must when it comes to real race dampers.

http://www.koni.com/car-racing/products/racing/trackday-kit/?L=

I'm really not a fan of KONI products, but if this product stays in the typical H&R price points, I might eat crow and give this a shot.

 

[SlowJim]

I wouldn't count on that actually being released for the s197 application.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

We get it that some of you guys don't have the desire for an MCS or AST adjustable monotube coilover. They can and do work well on the street, especially if you choose the spring rates right, but the price point is out of reach for many (we're shipping 3 sets of MCS S197s this week along - so some folks do make it happen).

And while our Bilstein StreetPRO set-up is a lot of suspension for the money ($1499) - with inverted Bilstein monotubes, your choice of FRPP springs, Vorshlag camber plates and new rear shock bushings - it still lacks one key thing that many of you want... adjustable ride height.



We already make a rear ride height adjuster set-up for the back of the S197, shown above. So setting the rear spring height is easy, and going this route allows you to use more common coilover springs (for lots of choices in length and spring rate). But what about the front?

Honestly, if bilstein made a height adjustable coilover with no rebound adjustment it would suit most people's needs. Most people that think they need an adjustable shock, really don't. Especially when you consider that it only costs $60 to revalve a bilstein. Versus $150 for Koni, AST etc.

Your wish may come true sooner than you think...

We're testing this inverted Bilstein monotube coilover on a customer's Mustang this week. It will utilize a 2.5" ID coilover spring and have over 2 inches of ride height adjustment range.

Since the inverted strut insert easily unbolts and removes from the outer strut housing, we can cut/weld/modify the housing to accept the threaded collar without damaging the internal hydraulics. We CNC machine the threaded collar and lower perch shown above to fit another Bilstein housing already (for another chassis - but the OD is the same) and will be making a complete S197 coilover set-up using Bilstein inverted dampers very, very soon.

Stay tuned...

 

[sheizasosay]

How is the warranty with those mods to the Bilsteins Terry?

 

[todcp]

Terry. Great idea. Thanks

 

[claudermilk]

And while our Bilstein StreetPRO set-up is a lot of suspension for the money ($1499) - with inverted Bilstein monotubes, your choice of FRPP springs, Vorshlag camber plates and new rear shock bushings - it still lacks one key thing that many of you want... adjustable ride height.

That's not the adjustment it's missing that I want. I am after rebound adjustment (and once funds allow compression as well). This lack is why I didn't go with Bilsteins and why my plan is to save up for the MCS TT1 kit. I also like the idea that they made it upgradeable.

For ride height, the common 1"/1.5" drop is fine for me--enough to look good and help handling, but not so much as to really severely compromise geometry/travel and DD use.

 

[jmauld]

Terry, isn't there a new line of Bilsteins that allow you to upgrade to rebound and compression adjustments after the initial purchase? I don't think it's the MDS series, but something similar?

 

[jayman33]

Ground Control offers an coilover conversion to the bilsteins.
We ran the AST 4150's on the Boss with Hyperco springs and Ground Control CC plates and was very happy with the adjustability and comfort of them.

We did just pick up a few higher end companies last week as we plan to build a car once I get back to the states. Should be fun and is convenient we can rent out NCCAR basically anytime we want to test everything out.

 

[modernbeat]

Terry, isn't there a new line of Bilsteins that allow you to upgrade to rebound and compression adjustments after the initial purchase? I don't think it's the MDS series, but something similar?

They are part of the MDS series. And they are pretty nice. But for the price, there are other options. And, they have to have the housings custom built, which adds even more costs.

 

[jmauld]

We did just pick up a few higher end companies last week as we plan to build a car once I get back to the states. Should be fun and is convenient we can rent out NCCAR basically anytime we want to test everything out.

Where are you located?

 

[jayman33]

Where are you located?

We're having a new facility being built in Fayetteville, NC.

But we have a few guys there right now.